Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Codec · 11-02-2006, 04:39 AM

I'm putting together a pictoral summary of the early church fathers, those related to the gospel traditions. When they were around, and where abouts they did their stuff. So far this is what I've got.

I wondered if anyone would care to comment on missing people, inaccuracies or other bits. I've basically done this from notes, wiki and stuff I've picked up here.

mountainman · 11-02-2006, 05:23 AM

I just posted this on the Eusebius thread, however the resource
should be just as useful for any type of research into the authors
of antiquity, specifically inclusive of those traditionally associated
with the "Ecclesiastical History" of the Roman religious order.

You will find that many, if not all of the authors that you may
wish to include related to the "Early Church Fathers" are assembled
in the mainstream (Eusebian) chronological order on this page.

Each of the hyperlinks for each of the authors listed return
a google search for that author.

Best wishes in your research.

Pete Brown
An Alternative Chronology for christianity.

lpetrich · 11-02-2006, 05:58 AM

Interesting sort of diagram, Codec; you ought to add some more names. I think that you could find a who's who at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com -- Peter Kirby's site stops at Origen, but before him were a few others.

Origen - Alexandria
Athenagoras - Athens
Tatian - Assyria

And advancing to Constantine's time, there was

Lactantius - Nicomedia? Constantinople?

But I do think that you ought to move the labels around so as to be less misleading. You could easily move the labels close to the residence points without losing much accuracy, and you could make the residence points bigger dots or +'s.

And Iraneus is really Irenaeus.

Malachi151 · 11-02-2006, 06:08 AM

This is great, I love it, but a few thing.

Why is the map so fuzzy, do you need helping finding a clearer map?

It would be good to see when there writings are from, not just their birth and death dates.

It would be good to have this on a map that showed ancient boundaries, not modern ones, but then again, they changed over time even during this period, so maybe that wouldn't work.

As for who to put on the map, here are the candidates:

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

I'd say that Origen is one to add, and Clement of Alexandria.

S.C.Carlson · 11-02-2006, 06:43 AM

Nice start.

You might want to put all the labels toward the edges or margins, instead of some on the middle.

Irenaeus (note spelling) is in Lyons, which is more to the south than the arrow points to.

Polycarp was based in Smyrna (modern Izmir), which should be further south on the coast of Turkey

Justin Martyr, though born in Palestine as the map indicates, he was converted in Ephesus and did his writings in Rome. If there's only one place to indicate on the map for him, I'd indicate Rome.

You may also want to include: Ignatius (Antioch), Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, Hermas (Rome).

Malachi151 · 11-02-2006, 07:02 AM

Yeah, I agree, put their location as where they were when they were writing, not where they were born.

Ben C Smith · 11-02-2006, 08:09 AM

I would add Hegesippus, Melito, and Theophilus. A good source of names to potentially include is On Famous Men by Jerome. Refer to New Advent for the English text; I have the table of contents (a raw list of names) on my site.

Ben.

Codec · 11-02-2006, 08:52 AM

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll have another draft and see if I can get it looking a bit better with the comments.

Codec · 11-03-2006, 02:30 AM

OK - his is the mark 2 version...

I added some of the suggestions in, got a better map and moved the labels around.

WishboneDawn · 11-03-2006, 03:47 AM

Great! If you don't mind I'd love to copy this and bring it in to my bible course. Year three is doing early christian figures as we speak and learning that geography often played a key role in what they believed.

A christian course goer finding resources on an atheist board.

It's why a love this place.

11-02-2006, 04:39 AM	#1
Codec Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 960	Early Church fathers - requesting comments. I'm putting together a pictoral summary of the early church fathers, those related to the gospel traditions. When they were around, and where abouts they did their stuff. So far this is what I've got. I wondered if anyone would care to comment on missing people, inaccuracies or other bits. I've basically done this from notes, wiki and stuff I've picked up here.

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11-02-2006, 05:23 AM	#2
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	I just posted this on the Eusebius thread, however the resource should be just as useful for any type of research into the authors of antiquity, specifically inclusive of those traditionally associated with the "Ecclesiastical History" of the Roman religious order. You will find that many, if not all of the authors that you may wish to include related to the "Early Church Fathers" are assembled in the mainstream (Eusebian) chronological order on this page. Each of the hyperlinks for each of the authors listed return a google search for that author. Best wishes in your research. Pete Brown An Alternative Chronology for christianity.

11-02-2006, 05:58 AM	#3
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Interesting sort of diagram, Codec; you ought to add some more names. I think that you could find a who's who at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com -- Peter Kirby's site stops at Origen, but before him were a few others. Origen - Alexandria Athenagoras - Athens Tatian - Assyria And advancing to Constantine's time, there was Lactantius - Nicomedia? Constantinople? But I do think that you ought to move the labels around so as to be less misleading. You could easily move the labels close to the residence points without losing much accuracy, and you could make the residence points bigger dots or +'s. And Iraneus is really Irenaeus.

11-02-2006, 06:08 AM	#4
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	This is great, I love it, but a few thing. Why is the map so fuzzy, do you need helping finding a clearer map? It would be good to see when there writings are from, not just their birth and death dates. It would be good to have this on a map that showed ancient boundaries, not modern ones, but then again, they changed over time even during this period, so maybe that wouldn't work. As for who to put on the map, here are the candidates: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/ I'd say that Origen is one to add, and Clement of Alexandria.

11-02-2006, 06:43 AM	#5
S.C.Carlson Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,307	Nice start. You might want to put all the labels toward the edges or margins, instead of some on the middle. Irenaeus (note spelling) is in Lyons, which is more to the south than the arrow points to. Polycarp was based in Smyrna (modern Izmir), which should be further south on the coast of Turkey Justin Martyr, though born in Palestine as the map indicates, he was converted in Ephesus and did his writings in Rome. If there's only one place to indicate on the map for him, I'd indicate Rome. You may also want to include: Ignatius (Antioch), Clement of Rome, Clement of Alexandria, Hermas (Rome).

11-02-2006, 07:02 AM	#6
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	Yeah, I agree, put their location as where they were when they were writing, not where they were born.

11-02-2006, 08:09 AM	#7
Ben C Smith Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,787	I would add Hegesippus, Melito, and Theophilus. A good source of names to potentially include is On Famous Men by Jerome. Refer to New Advent for the English text; I have the table of contents (a raw list of names) on my site. Ben.

11-02-2006, 08:52 AM	#8
Codec Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 960	Thanks for all the ideas. I'll have another draft and see if I can get it looking a bit better with the comments.

11-03-2006, 02:30 AM	#9
Codec Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nottingham, UK Posts: 960	OK - his is the mark 2 version... I added some of the suggestions in, got a better map and moved the labels around.

11-03-2006, 03:47 AM	#10
WishboneDawn Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 4,287	Great! If you don't mind I'd love to copy this and bring it in to my bible course. Year three is doing early christian figures as we speak and learning that geography often played a key role in what they believed. A christian course goer finding resources on an atheist board. It's why a love this place.

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