mountainman

Chrestos question = "Whoever wrote Acts"?

What about the "Other Acts" - the "Hidden Acts"?

Where do these pure and unadulterated Hellenistic
romance fictions fit into the Apostolic Circus of books?

Are we supposed to pretend they dont exist?
Are we wearing "Chrestian Mono-Act-Focals"?

The "Hidden Chrestian Acts"

ACT and Mainstream Estimate of Century of Authorship)

The Act of Peter 4th-5th
The Acts and Martyrdom of Andrew 5th
The Acts and Martyrdom of Matthew 5th
The Acts of Andrew and John (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Andrew and Matthew (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Barnabas 5th
The Acts of Bartholomew 5th
The Acts of John the Theologian 3rd-4th
The Acts of Luke 4th-5th
The Acts of Mark 4th-5th
The Acts of Matthew 6th
The Acts of Paul and Thecla 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter and Andrew 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter and Paul 4th-5th
The Acts of Philip 4th-5th
The Acts of Pilate 4th
The Acts of Polyeuctes 4th
The Acts of Simon and Jude 4th-5th
The Acts of Thaddaeus 4th-5th
The Acts of the Martrys 4th
The Acts of Timothy 5th
The Acts of Titus 5th
The Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca 4th
The Death of Pilate 4th
The History of John 4th-5th
The History of Joseph the Carpenter 4th
The Acts of Andrew (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of John (*H) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Paul (*R) 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Peter 2nd-3rd
The Acts of Thomas 3rd
The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles 2nd-3rd

Tyro

Indeed the inscription is not an indicator of the origin of the Jesus story. But still you think the inscription is about a Christian of some kind? What evidence is there of any Chrestians NOT believing in a Christ Jesus, except the Augustan History?

mountainman

SOURCED from here and elsewhere
All I have done is to try and index the references made in a chronological manner ...

Some unequivocably non-Christian useages
in Antiquity from the MS traditon for terms
related to "Christos" and/or "Chestos"

XXX BCE Homer's use of "chriso" ....

Christian theology has chosen and decreed that the name Christos
should be taken as derived from [chrio, chriso], "anointed with
scented unguents or oil." But this word has several significances.
It is used by Homer as applied to the rubbing with oil of the body
after bathing (Il. 23, 186; also in Od., 4, 252). Yet the word
Christes means rather a white-washer, while the word Chrestes
means priest and prophet, a term which on the surface may appear
to be far more applicable to Jesus, than that of the "Anointed,"
since, he never was anointed, either as king or priest.


XXX BCE
Erythrean Sybil. [IESOUS CHREISTOS THEOU HUIOS SOTER STAUROS].
The prophecy relates to the coming down upon the Earth of the Spirit
of Truth (Christos), after which advent will begin the Golden Age;
the verse refers to the necessity before reaching that blessed condition
of inner (or subjective) theophany and theopneusty, to pass through the
crucifixion of flesh or matter. (NB: This IMO refers to ASCETICISM)
The words meaning literally "Iesus, Christos, God, Son, Savior, Cross,"
are most excellent handles to hang a Christian prophecy on, but they
are pagan, not Christian.


470 BCE
Aeschylus (Cho. 901) we read of pythochresta
the "oracles delivered by a Pythian God"

460 BCE
Pindar (pp. 4-10) The words [chresen oikistera]
mean "the oracle proclaimed him the colonizer."
In this case the genius of the Greek language permits
that the man so proclaimed should be called Chrestos.
Hence this term was applied to every Disciple recognized by a Master,
as also to every good man.

420 BCE
Euripides (Ion. 1320) (Eurip. Ion, 1218)
Pythochrestos is the nominative singular
of an adjective derived from chrao .

420 BCE
Herodotus - The word [chreon] is explained by Herodotus (7,11,7,)
as that which an oracle declares, and See also Vide Herodotus, 7, 215; 5, 108;

420 BCE
Sophocles, Phil. 437.

350 BCE
Plato (in Phaed. 264 B) has [chrestos ei hoti hegei] --
"you are an excellent fellow to think . . ."

333 BCE
Demosthenes saying [o Chreste] (330, 27),
means by it simply "you nice fellow";
Demosthenes, De Corona, 313, declares that
the candidates for initiation
into the Greek mysteries were anointed with oil.
So they are now in India, even in the
initiation the Yogi mysteries, various
ointments or unguents being used.

XXX BCE
Pagan classics expressed more than one idea
by the verb [chraomai] "consulting an oracle";
for it also means "fated," doomed by an oracle,
in the sense of a sacrificial victim to its decree, or --
"to the WORD"; as chresterion is not only "the seat of an oracle"
but also "an offering to, or for, the oracle.'' (18)
Chrestes is one who expounds or explains oracles,
"a prophet, a soothsayer;" (19) and
chresterios is one who belongs to, or is in the service of,
an oracle, a god, or a "Master" (20);

010 CE
Philo Judaeus speaks of theochrestos "God-declared,"
or one who is declared by god, and of
logia theochresta "sayings delivered by God"

aa5874

Well, you have indeed answered your own questions.

In the OT, King David, the Jew was called christ. King David, the anointed one, christ, preceeded Jesus. People who believe in christ are called Christians. Jews were christians.

Jews, the anointed ones, the christians, predate the Jesus story by hundreds of years.

Non-Jews were called christians long after Jews were called the anointed oned, christians, and were called christians when they were circumcised and followed the Mosaic laws or if they believed the fabricated Jesus stories where Jesus was falsely claimed to be both God and christ.

The word Christian did not derive from Jesus, it is derived from christ, the anointed.

DCHindley

To the writer known as "aa5874",

"You err, Saklas."

I don't have BibleWorks installed on the kid's computer so I cannot check at the moment, but I believe the Hebrew word underlying the word sometimes translated "Messiah" in Daniel 9 is not unique to that book.

Didn't I recently mention that Cyrus is called a "messiah" (anointed) in Isaiah 45:1? The High Priest was also anointed upon installation in office just as much as was any king or prince.

In fact, the best we can assert in the case of Daniel 9 ("messiah the prince", "a messiah shall be cut off..." etc) is that the author is referring to anointed office holders of some kind. I say that these are High Priests serving as governors, not Jesus or the Christ of the Christians.

DCH

Tyro

I guess aa5874 refers to the Septuagint, since christos is in Greek.

"The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord, and against his Christ" - Psalms 2:2-3, in the Septuagint, translated by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton

But aa5874: Where is your evidence of Jews ever having been called christiani or chrestiani because they believed in kings and prophets annointed? Do you have any evidence of anyone else than Christians being referred to as Christiani?

aa5874

People who believe in Christ, the Messisah, are called Christians.

The Jews believed and expected Christ, the Messiah as found in Daniel 9.25 and 9.26.

The Jews are Christians. They believe in Christ.

Non-Jews believed and expected Christ as found in the NT or as described by Marcion.

The very passages about Christ found in Daniel and believed by Jews are the very same passages used by non-Jews and believed to be prophecies about their Christ

They are all called Christians.

premjan

I was thinking of the Biblical quote e.g. "Before Abraham was I am". I was just subscribing to the notion that Jesus was born of a union of a Roman soldier (possibly rape or otherwise illegitimate) with Mary. Then I would construct Jesus as a philosopher who created a heterodox synthesis of religious ideas of his time, and possibly escaped crucifixion by some luck, to create a rather enduring mythos.

Tyro

According to which evidence? I understand the notion that believers in a Christ (messiah) can be called christiani, but which evidence do we have of Jews ever being called Christians or Chrestians?

aa5874

Well, if you understand the notion that believers in a Christ (messiah) can be called christiani, then there is no restriction at all against Jews being called christians.

Now, if a Jew believes in Jesus Christ (the god/man), is he not called a christian?
Again if a non-Jew believes in A PHYSICAL Christ, is he not called a christian?

If Jews believe in a physical Christ they must have been called christians, the name "christian" is derived from the word "anointed" found in Jewish Scripture.

Non-Jews called themselves christians after adopting Jewish scripture and claiming that Christ was both god and man.


And again, in the OT, the evidence is quite clear, Jews were referred to as the anointed ones from which the word christian" was derived.

This is Tertullian concerning the meaning of the word "christian" in "Apology" 3 Psalms 105:15 - Acts 15:1 - Acts 15.5 Even based on the NT, Jews who followed the Laws of Moses believed they were christians.