Decypher

I guess we differ on this point. I wouldn't want Christianity to be true because I believe it is horrifically immoral. The behaviour of Biblegod, the doctrine of eternal hell, the punishment of the unbelievers, these things all look revolting to me. And the Calvinist notion of predestination makes it all even more evil. That Jesus said we should love people doesn't excuse these things as far as I am concerned. Not in a million years.

Sheshbazzar

I do not believe that He said anything that was dishonest, His hearers interpreted His sayings as they understood them, but just did not comprehend the full breadth of their application.(no more than they accurately comprehended the actual size of "the whole world")
What I write here, you interpret in ways that align with your own notions and opinions, then jump to your own conclusions, nothing new in that, they did the same with His sayings.
I do not believe that YAH-hoshua misled anyone. Remember I said that "He spoke ambiguously", and His hearers interpreted His sayings so as to suit themselves, if they were misled, it was only by their own erroneous interpretations and their own faulty conclusions.

Sheshbazzar

All I can say to this is GOOD GRIEF! You sure don't know of me or of my beliefs!
First, I AM NOT a "Christian" and neither would I want "Christianity" to be "true", because I also believe it to be horrifically immoral, and most of the rest of what you brought up has no place within my doctrine, and is equally revolting to me
When I speak of "a Greater Authority and Power" I am not referring to the "god" of the "Christian" religion, but of One whom will make it manifest to ALL men for the evil perversion of the truth that it is.

Amaleq13

No responsibility on the part of the one choosing to speak "ambiguously"?

Sheshbazzar

He gave fair warning to anyone who was actually carefully listening.
If the deceived are pursuing their own an agenda, and are thereby misled because they are superficial in their "hearing" or in their "understanding", then their sin lies within their own gates.
But His grace is able to deliver anyone that humbles themselves, to make Him their trust, though they might in all innocence of intent, be found to be in error in some matters.

Decypher

His words were "carefully contrived" to convince his listeners of something false. That is what you appear to be saying. And that seems an obvious case of dishonesty. It isn't clear to me how you can think it wouldn't be.

Decypher

So if Jesus uses "carefully contrived" words to convince his listeners of something false, then Jesus hasn't done anything wrong. Actually, it is the fault of his listeners that they believe a falsity, they should have been listening more carefully? I really don't understand your position here.

Decypher

How did I jump to any "conclusions"? Read my post. I first questioned you about what you were actually saying. I was asking for clarification.

With regard to the conditional statement that you responded to:

"If Jesus is misleading people about which generation will see the end then he is shooting himself in the foot!"

Do you disagree with it?

Sheshbazzar

Remember I said that "He spoke ambiguously", and His hearers interpreted His sayings so as to suit themselves, if they were misled, it was only by their own erroneous interpretations and their own faulty conclusions."
"Speaking ambiguously" or teaching in parables is not dishonest, His elect all get the essential message, while the rebellious and gainsaying will all end up being hoist by their own petards of faulty interpretations and rebellious reasonings:He left this saying knowing that some hearers would "get it" and some would not "get it" If you want your eye to see Him in an evil light, then your eye will see Him in an evil light. He left His words, it is up to men, to the individual, as to how they will hear them, and how they will interpret them.
I have above pointed out that the call to "REPENT!" was, and still is, an expression of an immediate imperative, I see no problem in Him calling His people into obedience and into immediate repentance, As He DID NOT stop there, but called all men everywhere to "search the Scriptures", as many as obeyed could then determine for their own selves whether and what of those things that were written of old had come to pass, and what things still remained to come to pass.
Thus, if they were obeying His words, they would be able to determine for themselves the signs and the times.
You rather obviously jumped to some in forming your reply to this statement;
A reply which could only have been founded upon the erroneous idea or conclusion that you were arguing with a "Christian", and your equally erroneous ideas that I approved of the practices of the "Christian" religion, and that I was accepting of the teachings of the "Christian" religion.
Which could hardly be further from any true comprehension of my beliefs.
To me, and to my Faith, your "Jesus" IS "The False Prophet", "The Anti-Messiah", "The Deceiver of The Nations" and "Christianity" and its perverted doctrines, are his bad "seed" ("tares") and his evil offspring who have not a love of the truth, but do receive and worship a lie.

GenesisNemesis

Excuse me, but are you preaching?
I take offense to that.
Can you explain the verse

Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then we which are alive and remain? They're dead.