Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clinical · 10-27-2008, 07:49 AM

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Usually around here we prefer actual quotes backed up by a reference to the source of the statement, as opposed to loose paraphrases. Where and when did she say this, in what book, publication, on what date, on what page...?

Hello Steviepinhead, and apologies to the moderators for bumping this old thread now.

She says in this article http://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-e...ammed_3866.jsp in the section that says "Three sources of evidence".

She says "The third, and immeasurably exciting, type of source is looming increasingly large on the horizon: archaeology. Arabia, the big unknown, has begun to be excavated, and though it is unlikely that there will be archaeological explorations of Mecca and Medina anytime soon, the results from this discipline are already mind-opening.

Arabia seems to have been a much more developed place than most Islamicists (myself included) had ever suspected – not just in the north and south, but also in the middle. We are beginning to get a much more nuanced sense of the place, and again it is clear that we should think of it as more closely tied in with the rest of the near east than we used to do. The inscriptional record is expanding, too. With every bit of certainty we gain on one problem, the range of possible interpretations in connection with others contracts, making for a better sense of where to look for solutions and better conjectures where no evidence exists." She also cites a recent work here http://www.taylorandfrancis.co.uk/sh...=0415032687&pc

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I note that Patricia Crone is more in the nature of a historian of the rise of the Islamic religion than an archaeologist. Which doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't know what she's talking about -- though, given her interests, she could be talking about archaeological investigations of the period surrounding and since the rise of Islam, and not Saudi archaeology generally.

You are mostly right here. But archaeology is important to historians too.
By the way i am not a fan of Patricia Crone at all.

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Again, a little more detail would be appreciated -- a link to the announcement of this find. My google-fu could easily be failing me, but searching for terms like "Saudi Arabia," "archeology," and "temple" does not seem to locate a recent find.

Unfortunately Steviepinhead the link is in Arabic. If you do not trust my translation for obvious reasons, you would have to consult an Arabian friend of yours.
http://www.ahl-alquran.com/arabic/sh...p?main_id=3256

Clinical · 10-27-2008, 07:51 AM

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Originally Posted by anthrosciguy

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Originally Posted by Clinical

Patricia Crone says archaeology is still in its baby phase in Arabia. At least it is not as extensively researched as Egypt, Persia etc...

Few places are as extensively researched (in archaeology) as Egypt and (the former) Persia. By that standard there is little archaeological research anywhere.

What about the Americas, Europe, the Indus Valley and East Asia etc...?

Clinical · 10-27-2008, 07:55 AM

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She may be talking about the Hijaz region, where Mecca and Medina are. That area may not have been archeologically researched as intensively as Egypt and Iraq and the Levant.

That's exactly what she meant.

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In any case, Mecca cannot reasonably be claimed to be humanity's oldest city, another claim that Muslim apologists might want to make.

The honor likely goes to Jericho, with Damascus being a close competitor.

I believe none claimed it to be the oldest, despite the fact that we have next nothing about the archaeology of that area. The claim is that it's the first land on earth, and whether that claim turn out to be true or not makes no difference to me whatsoever.

Steviepinhead · 10-27-2008, 03:51 PM

Clinical:

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Unfortunately Steviepinhead the link is in Arabic. If you do not trust my translation for obvious reasons, you would have to consult an Arabian friend of yours.
http://www.ahl-alquran.com/arabic/sh...p?main_id=3256

The page the link led to had an English button, but clicking that -- while it led to an English version of what appeared to mainly be articles about religio-political concerns -- did not lead to any obvious article about recent archaeological finds.

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