douglas

I'm not sure why the location of the "judging" matters, or if he judges nations or, or how long the punishment will be. The point of the OP relates to God's mercy. We can trade interpretations all day long, but IMHO, according to scripture, the christian god is conditionally merciful - the most important conditions being; believe in and worship him, and believe that Jesus is his son. If you don't hold to these convictions, then you are not a christian.

Even though I see little scripture to support your theory that "God will save us all", I agree with the other posters. You're approach is an improvement.

sharon45

But it does mention the division between those belonging to heaven and not.
Because the kingdom is heaven and the separation is about those belonging to the kingdom and those belonging to the devil. The world is shown as the field inwhich both types of seeds were sown and gathered from, and this is not the kingdom. Ones belonging to the kindom are taken to the kingdom, which is then shown as the barn, and those belonging to the devil are thus burned.
Just because your belief can't accept them as severe contradictions, doesn't change the text. The separation is real and shown to be about those belonging to god and those belonging to the devil. There is no end to this division demonstrated in the gospels, which contradicts your impression of paul's writings.

TonyN

Forever and ever describe God's eternal state? Wow! I'm impressed! Not! Where in all the Bible does it say that forever and ever describe God's eternal state? It doesn't. In the first place, the Greek is eis tous aionas ton aionon and is "for the eons of the eons." Eons is plural and in the genitive case denoting posession i.e. Son of God is "God's Son" showing genitive. Eons of the eons is just like the tabernacle system of "the holies of the holies." There were 5 holy parts to the tabernacle system. The final two holy parts were the holiest and were called "the holies of the holies." Likewise there are 5 major eons in the Bible. The final two have Christ and God on the earth and so are the greatest eons of all the eons that went before. That is why they are called the eons of the eons.

Wherever you see the word "eternal" or "forever" in your bible, kindly mark it out and put in the word 'eonian' in its place. It is an adjective. It does the duty of informing us of that which pertains to the noun from which it is derived (eon). Therefore the eonian chastening of Matthew 25:46 is the chastening pertaining to the eon as is the life.

Nice try but no cigar. Tell me, if the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are "undergoing the punishment of **eternal** fire, how was it that the fire went out thousands of years ago? This is just one more reason showing that if "aionios" is translated "eternal" it leads to insane interpretations.

Your per-Version mistranslated Matthew 25:46. Here are a couple more reputable translations:

Mat 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

(YLT) And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during

Rotherham's would not agree with your bible either. The chastening cannot be eternal. How can a nation like Russia be chastened for eternity when once the earth is destroyed Russia as a nation will cease to exist? This is only during the 1000 year age to come.

Jud 1:13 wild billows of the sea, frothing forth their own shame; straying stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been kept for an eon."

1Ti 1:17 Now to the King of the eons, the incorruptible, invisible, only, and wise God, be honor and glory for the eons of the eons! Amen!"

Rev 5:13 ". . . To Him Who is sitting on the throne-To the Lambkin-Be blessing and honor and glory and might For the eons of the eons!"

Rev 19:3 And a second time have they declared, "Hallelujah!And her smoke is ascending for the eons of the eons."


Rev 20:10 And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons."

If you want to see how long for ever and ever is go here for a graph:

http://www.saviour-of-all.org/ChartOfJudgments.html

Besides, God can't torture anyone for eternity because if He did that He couldn't save everyone, now could He? 1 Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10.

DBT

I'm on holidays so I don't have the time to address this as well as I'd like to.
But yes, I do realise that 'aionios' can be interpreted in several different ways.

Strong's Greek Dictionary defines "aion" as: "an age, perpetuity, the world, a Messianic period, course, eternal, forever, evermore, without end." Strong's defines the adjective aionios as follows: "perpetual, eternal, forever, everlasting."

Like many words that have multiple meanings, it is the context in which it is used that determines its meaning in that particular instance. So yes, you are correct in saying that it does refer to set periods of time, but only in a certain context.
As the word does not have a set meaning, it is the context in which it is used that clearly puts its meaning as "perpetual, eternal, forever, everlasting" - in the given verses.

Your fallacy is in conflating multiple contextual interpretions because it suits your personal beliefs.

sharon45

This one was for a good laugh.

TonyN

But that's the problem, 'aionios' is an adjective and cannot possibly mean eternal. The ONLY way it could mean eternal is if it's noun (aion) from which it is derived meant "eternal." No aion/eon is eternal. The Bible NEVER uses aion as eternal. The bible in fact states that all the aion's end:

1Co 10:11 Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained."

Heb 9:26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest."

How can an eon be eternal if one has to end and another begins to take its place? They cannot be eternal. They all will eventually end. Therefore, aionios, being the adjective of aion tells us of that which pertains to the aion or aionas (plural) as the case may be.

And Strong is inspired? The only reason Strong gave those disparate meanings to aion is due to using an improperly translated version of the Bible as his source. Besides, that is a contradiction in terms that an aion can both be an age having a beginning and an end and also be eternal (without beginning and without end.) Had Strong used the Concordant Version he would not have had such a strange plethora of meanings for aion.

But the word does have a set meaning especially in the New Testament. The basic meaning of aion is simply "duration." We find out what that duration is by the context. The duration is never eternal by any context. Likewise, the adjective aionios must mean "pertaining to the aion" just like "Heavenly" pertains to Heaven in the bible, "soulish" pertains to the soul in the bible etc.

Not really, but your fallacy is that you are trying to prove your thesis just by appealing to authority which proves nothing. Just saying it means such and such because Strong says so proves nothing. What proves anything is PROOF.
I only go by what the Bible tells me. The bible tells me all the eons end therefore they cannot be endless. That is not my personal belief. That is the Bible proof.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to TonyN: Since you frequently quote the Bible, are you by any chance an inerrantist? If so, where is your evidence that the Bible is inerrant? If not, why do you frequently quote the Bible?

God refuses to protect women from rapists. Do you consider that to be merciful? One million people died of starvation in the Irish Potato Famine because God refused to give them food, even though James says that if a man refuses to give food to a hungry man, he is vain, and his faith is dead. Do you consider that to be merciful? God refuses to provide additional evidence that would convince more people to become Christians. Do you consider that to be merciful?

Thomas II

Also, wouldn't it be cruel to be merciful with only a few ?
A plane crashed and god was merciful with row 7 but not with row 11...
:huh:

In addition, isn't it extra cruel that god would be merciful with those who begged god more vehemently for the recovery of their loved one?
But my loved one died!!
What?...Hmm...I guess you did not begged hard enough...Maybe you could have saved mom and dad if you would have prayed hard enough, but because you did not prayed hard enough, or with enough conviction, one could say you actually killed mom and dad!...It's your fault!

TonyN

I use the Bible as my guide. It is good enough for me.
About women getting raped. . . There was a story about an old woman walking along the road and a man stole her purse. The old lady yelled: "Hey, what about the rape?"

There are many things in this life that happen to Christians and non Christians. Christians have been burned at the stake, pulled in pieces, sawn in half, and every other thing under the sun. Did they think God was not merciful to them?

God doesn't want to provide more evidence so more people will be saved. He does not want everyone to be saved just yet. He has other things and goals which must be done first. He is saving a select few idiots like me (1 Corinthians 1:26) for the next two ages to do His work. He does not need all mankind involved in that sort of work. It is not a matter of being merciful or not but a matter of what is needful. Is General Motors unmerciful if they need 100 workers and cannot hire the whole world?

Murray

Check out my thread on "A Christian's View of Hell."