Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
Yeah. What you should do is lie to everyone and tell them that there is not God to whom they are accountable and no such thing as sin. Then, when they die and find out different, you can laugh. What a funny world you envision! You can go to every funeral and laugh about how you lied to the poor sucker and how his butt is being fried because he believed you.

JPD
It would be Biblegod specifically, but Allah aswell - you're showing your bias. On the basis of the foul society that you would deem acceptable. All of your reasoning comes from nothing more than a text that you can't verify to bear any relationship to reality. I'm not asking that any "poor sucker" does anything more or less than challenge what you hold to be the truth. But it wouldn't be so pertinent were it not for your desire to see capital punishment established for "crimes" or "sins" that do not, to intelligent and thoughtful individuals, warrant it. If you weren't shouting and crying so much about what you regard to be fair punishment (which clearly is anything but just but then you have consistently failed to justify anything you say other than by saying "Yeah - Biblegod says so") you wouldn't attract so much negative comment.

Nonetheless, we all die one day. Maybe it is Biblegod, maybe not. Time will tell. God has established the rules for entering heaven. Why deny it? (You don't have to believe it. but why deny it?)

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
Aren't all people "decent" by their own evaluation? I am a decent person and I love the God of the Bible. Of course, you may have some unique definition of "decent" that you are using (but not telling anyone about).

JPD
Probably not no. I wouldn't think that a child rapist would think "I'm really decent." Ditto for a mass murderer.

I guess we will have to ask the child rapist and the mass murderer. My suspicion is that these guys don't think that they are all that bad.

JPD · 12-07-2006, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Nonetheless, we all die one day. Maybe it is Biblegod, maybe not. Time will tell. God has established the rules for entering heaven. Why deny it? (You don't have to believe it. but why deny it?)

Would that were something to actually deny - words alone are an insufficient basis to determine something that is potentially this important. And there you go again - you say 'God' but what you actually mean is 'Biblegod'. You do this all the time as if it will somehow swing the argument. If God is real and if Biblegod is that God I wouldn't be able to worship him I'm afraid. I just couldn't set my sights that low.

JPD · 12-07-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

I guess we will have to ask the child rapist and the mass murderer. My suspicion is that these guys don't think that they are all that bad.

Perhaps they're in denial - it happens. But their truthfulness could be called into question as much as anyone else's in any case so how would you - if you wanted to (I couldn't be bothered) - analyse them and establish that they were telling the truth? You want to create a society in which you want people to be truthful but are actually encouraging some people (homosexuals) to lie to avoid capital punishment.

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to rhutchin: Regarding homosexuality, do you mind telling us why you believe that the writers spoke for God and not for themselves?

That is their personal testimony. In addition, it seems to have been accepted by the people. For example Peter accepted the things Paul wrote as being from God. Regardless, you do not have to believe that this is so, nor is it required that I convince you that it is so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

In addition, will you please tell us why you believe that the writings in the Bible that you use accurately represent the originals?

I go with the textual critics on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Any religious writer can claim that his writings are inerrant, but that does not reasonably prove anything.

No it doesn't. Nonetheless, we all die. So we all get to learn the truth about who was telling the truth and who was not.

JPD · 12-07-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

No it doesn't. Nonetheless, we all die. So we all get to learn the truth about who was telling the truth and who was not.

So you have reduced Biblegod to the level of an elaborate prankster. Keep going - you're making him look even more ridiculous a prospect for worship than the Bible does.

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
I guess we will have to ask the child rapist and the mass murderer. My suspicion is that these guys don't think that they are all that bad.

JPD
Perhaps they're in denial - it happens. But their truthfulness could be called into question as much as anyone else's in any case so how would you - if you wanted to (I couldn't be bothered) - analyse them and establish that they were telling the truth? You want to create a society in which you want people to be truthful but are actually encouraging some people (homosexuals) to lie to avoid capital punishment.

Given the number of men who rape their daughters (of which we each probably know women who have said these things happened to them), I suspect more than denial is at play. I wonder if any person can say that they are "decent" without being in denial.

I don't want the sexually immoral to lie about their activities. I want them to stop doing those things and ask God to forgive them. I don't care if it is the adulterer or the homosexual or the rapist. The lie is to tell such people that they are not accountable to God for their actions and that there are not grave consequences for doing these things.

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
No it doesn't. Nonetheless, we all die. So we all get to learn the truth about who was telling the truth and who was not.

JPD
So you have reduced Biblegod to the level of an elaborate prankster. Keep going - you're making him look even more ridiculous a prospect for worship than the Bible does.

Read it again, Sam. You still get to die one day. No prank here. So you will learn the truth about who was telling the truth and who was not. You get to learn who was the prankster and who was not. Exciting, isn't it?

rhutchin · 12-07-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

rhutchin
Nonetheless, we all die one day. Maybe it is Biblegod, maybe not. Time will tell. God has established the rules for entering heaven. Why deny it? (You don't have to believe it. but why deny it?)

JPD
If God is real and if Biblegod is that God I wouldn't be able to worship him I'm afraid. I just couldn't set my sights that low.

Bummer. Too bad death is certain. Who wants to die and then discover that they screwed up.

JPD · 12-07-2006, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Given the number of men who rape their daughters (of which we each probably know women who have said these things happened to them), I suspect more than denial is at play. I wonder if any person can say that they are "decent" without being in denial.

I don't want the sexually immoral to lie about their activities. I want them to stop doing those things and ask God to forgive them. I don't care if it is the adulterer or the homosexual or the rapist. The lie is to tell such people that they are not accountable to God for their actions and that there are not grave consequences for doing these things.

You evidently don't understand what lies are. In order to accuse someone of lying you have to establish the truthfulness of what it is that you claim they are lying about. Does faith establish truthfulness in anyone else's mind apart from the believers? No. So it doesn't work. You might convince like-minded believers (ie. those who already are convinced of their own moral superiority)

That you list adulterers and homosexuals in the same category as rapists is reason enough to ignore absolutely everything you say because it clearly just isn't worth listening to. To regard forced penetration on someone is not - it is pathetically sad that I need point this out - the same thing as adults enjoying each other. But perhaps fitting people into categories that you can cope with is more important than the people's own lives.

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