Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-01-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Yo did not quote the entire passage.

Yo! How does the rest of the passage change things? How about formatting your posts so they can be read??

lmbarre · 01-01-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Instead of trying to find Eden, it would be better to find peace. The world would be a lot better to busy themselves with productive businesses.

I am not trying to find a place mentioned in an allegorical myth. j Perhaps a proper understanding of this story will bring some peace to your soul.

Thanks.

You are welcome.

lmbarre · 01-01-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Could you format that post? It's hard after a while to tell what is a quote and what is your writing.

Quote:

Note that the snake was created by Yahweh and that his salient characteristic was his craftiness with a single, sexual agenda who will employ this craftiness to get laid.

The snake is not trying to get laid. The snake probably represents pagan wisdom and is just trying to enlighten the silly humans. God lied to Adam and Eve but the snake told the truth - that they would not die if they ate the apple.

From this:

Quote:

We have a little sister,
and as yet she has no breasts.
What shall we do for our sister
on the day when she is spoken for?

it appears that sex with a prepubescent girl is not a good thing, even if she is given in an arranged marriage. That's a far cry from trying to persuade pubescent teenagers to postpone sex.

Yo did not quote the entire passage.

Here it is again:

8 Our sister is little: her breasts are not yet formed. What shall we do for our sister on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a rampart, on the crest we shall build a battlement of silver; if she is a door, we shall board her up with planks of cedar.

You should quote the entire passage because my point is based upon the part that you did not quote, namely, that Israelite wisdom tradition did have certain conventions about premarital sex, making your blanket statement that it is a strictly modern concern appear to be uniformed. It would be good if you did not quote people out of context, even you think it does not matter. It places you in a bad light.

lmbarre · 01-01-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Most of the time . . . Sometimes a snake is a phallic symbol. What do you think is the case in this myth?

Nothing to do with sex but with perplexity and so the serpent is the temple tramp to solve problems in the conscious mind. She is all we have as our best friend outside of Eden, where she is our pleasure, our riddle and our rat, and will always surprise us and teach us to crawl when the going gets tough. It so is said that a vivid Eve makes for an interesting life and never a life as a drone for whom sex is 'as if the end of happiness' itself.

Yes she is erotic and sexy but valliant and virgin foremost to make sense perception known to us so that consumation can be reached . . . or there would be marriage in heaven still. She is our desire, if you wish, and we are the dummy she must lead around (note that Magdalene was redundant and left in the dark and hence desire is a thing of the past in heaven = no tanha in Buddhism either).

To understand her better please do a little Shakespeare where she is always elevated as the charm of life as it is. She was Valeria in Coriolanus who was the maid Aufidius had married: "Know thou first,/ I loved the maid I married (IV.v.114-15). and this little speech goes on to honor her more. Beautiful lines about life but not the dirty job that we call sex, surely not, however satisfying that may be. She is the lesser serpent in Gen.3:15 who strikes at our heel.

The rising action in this play is where Valeria becomes redundant in the life of Aufidius who goes to heaven, i suppose.

"It has nothing to do with sex . . ." Then would you mind meeting my arguments that it does, instead of pontificating?

lmbarre · 01-01-2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Sometimes a snake is just a snake. . .

Most of the time . . . Sometimes a snake is a phallic symbol. What do you think is the case in this myth?

Nothing to do with sex but with perplexity and so the serpent is the temple tramp to solve problems in the conscious mind. She is all we have as our best friend outside of Eden, where she is our pleasure, our riddle and our rat, and will always surprise us and teach us to crawl when the going gets tough. It so is said that a vivid Eve makes for an interesting life and never a life as a drone for whom sex is 'as if the end of happiness' itself.

Yes she is erotic and sexy but valliant and virgin foremost to make sense perception known to us so that consumation can be reached . . . or there would be marriage in heaven still. She is our desire, if you wish, and we are the dummy she must lead around (note that Magdalene was redundant and left in the dark and hence desire is a thing of the past in heaven = no tanha in Buddhism either).

To understand her better please do a little Shakespeare where she is always elevated as the charm of life as it is. She was Valeria in Coriolanus who was the maid Aufidius had married: "Know thou first,/ I loved the maid I married (IV.v.114-15). and this little speech goes on to honor her more. Beautiful lines about life but not the dirty job that we call sex, surely not, however satisfying that may be. She is the lesser serpent in Gen.3:15 who strikes at our heel.

The rising action in this play is where Valeria becomes redundant in the life of Aufidius who goes to heaven, i suppose.

No she isn't.

Toto · 01-01-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Yo did not quote the entire passage.

Here it is again:

8 Our sister is little: her breasts are not yet formed. What shall we do for our sister on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a rampart, on the crest we shall build a battlement of silver; if she is a door, we shall board her up with planks of cedar.

You should quote the entire passage because my point is based upon the part that you did not quote, namely, that Israelite wisdom tradition did have certain conventions about premarital sex, making your blanket statement that it is a strictly modern concern appear to be uniformed. ...

I did not say that concerns about premarital sex were modern. Traditional societies do prohibit premarital sex, but they deal with the issue differently. They do not tell teenagers to postpone sex for years; instead they arrange marriages for young women shortly after puberty, and expect that young women will spend their lives having as many babies as they can.

But that's different from the section that you quote. The young woman there is still a girl, without breasts. The question involves a time when she is spoken for (in an arranged marriage.) So this passage has nothing to do with premarital sex.

Check the commentary on http://bible.cc/songs/8-8.htm

Quote:

We have a little sister - This young girl belonged most probably to the bride.

She hath no breasts - She is not yet marriageable.

What shall we do for our sister - How shall we secure her comfort and welfare?

In the day when she shall be spoken for? - When any person shall demand her in marriage.

sotto voce · 01-01-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

What about the tree of the knowledge of good and bad? The meaning of the phrase, “good and bad” seems to hold the same meaning as it does with regard to a certain Barzillai:

Does it?

'"I am now eighty years old; can I tell the good from the bad?"'

The words used for 'good' and 'bad' are here used just as they are in English. They can apply to moral behaviour, but also to apples, journeys and weather. So, just as in English, we need to inspect the context to discover what is meant:

'"Has your servant any taste for his food and drink? Can I still hear the voices of men and women singers?"'

The meaning of the phrase, “good and bad” does not seem to hold the same meaning in Genesis 2:17 as it does with regard to Barzillai.

Chili · 01-02-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Here it is again:

8 Our sister is little: her breasts are not yet formed. What shall we do for our sister on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a rampart, on the crest we shall build a battlement of silver; if she is a door, we shall board her up with planks of cedar.

You should quote the entire passage because my point is based upon the part that you did not quote, namely, that Israelite wisdom tradition did have certain conventions about premarital sex, making your blanket statement that it is a strictly modern concern appear to be uniformed. It would be good if you did not quote people out of context, even you think it does not matter. It places you in a bad light.

But the serpent has nothing to do with sex because she became Eve in the mind of Adam where she is temple tramp and mediatrix between the woman and the ego called Adam with no dick of his own but indeed perceives the illusion to give him a hardon. She, the serpent is the queen of illusion and the free agent of lucifer and your Song of Songs takes place in Eden instead of outside of Eden where the serpent is active and Songs is a lamentation of the days gone by where Solomon sought pleasure in her but never found it there . . . but of course in the mean time they procreated but that is just a side issue of what she is all about.

I never read Songs, sorry to say, but I see a homecoming in it, finally, to say that all the world had to offer is vanity compared to the true love he found within himself, and your rant about premature sex is a caution not to arouse this inner love before its own time and so get burned for life (2:7), as the essence of virginity is conceiled therein, which has nothing to do with a girls pussie but her intergrity behind it . . . as the lady she is created to be and is free to give in her own time, in love to her man in the foreshadow of love divine that will not be raped nor violated at the cost of Eden as the promised land (where the 'home of her mother' is at). It so here is the precaution not to 'part the waters' to gain entree into the promised land, and don't you see! or do you really think that the bible has time to write about a stupic dick?

lmbarre · 01-06-2012, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Here it is again:

8 Our sister is little: her breasts are not yet formed. What shall we do for our sister on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a rampart, on the crest we shall build a battlement of silver; if she is a door, we shall board her up with planks of cedar.

You should quote the entire passage because my point is based upon the part that you did not quote, namely, that Israelite wisdom tradition did have certain conventions about premarital sex, making your blanket statement that it is a strictly modern concern appear to be uniformed. It would be good if you did not quote people out of context, even you think it does not matter. It places you in a bad light.

But the serpent has nothing to do with sex because she became Eve in the mind of Adam where she is temple tramp and mediatrix between the woman and the ego called Adam with no dick of his own but indeed perceives the illusion to give him a hardon. She, the serpent is the queen of illusion and the free agent of lucifer and your Song of Songs takes place in Eden instead of outside of Eden where the serpent is active and Songs is a lamentation of the days gone by where Solomon sought pleasure in her but never found it there . . . but of course in the mean time they procreated but that is just a side issue of what she is all about.

I never read Songs, sorry to say, but I see a homecoming in it, finally, to say that all the world had to offer is vanity compared to the true love he found within himself, and your rant about premature sex is a caution not to arouse this inner love before its own time and so get burned for life (2:7), as the essence of virginity is conceiled therein, which has nothing to do with a girls pussie but her intergrity behind it . . . as the lady she is created to be and is free to give in her own time, in love to her man in the foreshadow of love divine that will not be raped nor violated at the cost of Eden as the promised land (where the 'home of her mother' is at). It so here is the precaution not to 'part the waters' to gain entree into the promised land, and don't you see! or do you really think that the bible has time to write about a stupic dick?

Well, I think I have offered a valid interpretation, showing how in characterization and plot devlopment a sexual allegory is indicated. My intention in citing examples of similar sexual mores makes it more believeable that we have here a story based upon a parental admonition regarding when it is appropriate to become sexually active. Song of song admonishes that one should not awaken love "until it please," or as I am taking it, when it would be appropriate.

lmbarre · 01-06-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by barre

Here it is again:

8 Our sister is little: her breasts are not yet formed. What shall we do for our sister on the day she is spoken for?
9 If she is a rampart, on the crest we shall build a battlement of silver; if she is a door, we shall board her up with planks of cedar.

You should quote the entire passage because my point is based upon the part that you did not quote, namely, that Israelite wisdom tradition did have certain conventions about premarital sex, making your blanket statement that it is a strictly modern concern appear to be uniformed. It would be good if you did not quote people out of context, even you think it does not matter. It places you in a bad light.

I

But the serpent has nothing to do with sex because she became Eve in the mind of Adam where she is temple tramp and mediatrix between the woman and the ego called Adam with no dick of his own but indeed perceives the illusion to give him a hardon. She, the serpent is the queen of illusion and the free agent of lucifer and your Song of Songs takes place in Eden instead of outside of Eden where the serpent is active and Songs is a lamentation of the days gone by where Solomon sought pleasure in her but never found it there . . . but of course in the mean time they procreated but that is just a side issue of what she is all about.

I never read Songs, sorry to say, but I see a homecoming in it, finally, to say that all the world had to offer is vanity compared to the true love he found within himself, and your rant about premature sex is a caution not to arouse this inner love before its own time and so get burned for life (2:7), as the essence of virginity is conceiled therein, which has nothing to do with a girls pussie but her intergrity behind it . . . as the lady she is created to be and is free to give in her own time, in love to her man in the foreshadow of love divine that will not be raped nor violated at the cost of Eden as the promised land (where the 'home of her mother' is at). It so here is the precaution not to 'part the waters' to gain entree into the promised land, and don't you see! or do you really think that the bible has time to write about a stupic dick?

It had time to talk about masturbation (Onan)

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