squiz

One often hears that Christ died at the age of 33 at about 30 AD, that Paul was operating about 10 years later, etc. etc.

Could someone please fill me in on what each of these claims is based on?

mountainman

Was Paul a physician?
Was Paul a therapeutae
of Asclepius as was Galen?



Eusebius' hearsay c.312-324 CE
When the "nation" was at last identified.



Best wishes,


Pete Brown

aa5874

These claims appear to be based on fiction as described in the NT.

Julian

That's a fairly complex question. The reason that no one is completely sure is that the bible contradicts itself on this point. In Luke, Jesus is born during the census of Quirinius (an event in the gospel that leaves much to be desired in terms of historical accuracy) which would put his birth in the year 6 CE at the earliest, since that was when the region came under roman control. In Matthew, Jesus is born under King Herod who dies in 4 BCE. This leaves a rather large variation in the birth estimate. The date of his death is not recorded but would have been during the reign of Pilate. Anyways, numerous estimates are possible, the one you quote is as good as any, which is to say, not that good.

Julian

Ben C Smith

Come, gentlemen. It seems clear that the OP is asking what part(s) of the NT or of Eusebius these claims are based on, not (only) whether they are true. It would seem riding a hobby horse is easier than actually answering the question.

The age of Christ at death and the other important dates of his life are estimates based on several dating indications in the NT:

1. In Matthew 2.1 Jesus is born in the days of king Herod, who died in about 4 BC.
2. Luke 2.1 appears to date the birth of Jesus at the time of the Judean census in AD 6.
3. Luke 3.1 gives a complex dating synchronism placing the beginning of the public ministry in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, about AD 27, and Luke 3.23 further states that Jesus was about 30 years of age at this time.
4. There is a very complicated set of astronomical data concerning the years in which the Passover could have fallen on the day(s) indicated by the gospels. However, the synoptics and John appear to disagree on what day this might have been.

These are the basic data, though there are others. It should be stressed that there is no unanimity on any of these dates, and all proposed dates are approximate, even granting a sense of accuracy to at least some of the items on that list (which not everybody does).

The dates for Paul are based both on his chronological relationship to the death of Jesus (and thus depend on the items on the above list) and on his travelogue in Acts, particularly as pertains to Acts 18.12-17 and the Gallio inscription (scroll down to near the bottom of the page).

Ben.

mountainman

Hi Ben,

This may shock you but the NT is not a frame of reference
that I turn to for any sort of authority. The question:
"fill me in on what each of these claims is based on
need not be answered with reference to the NT.

My response was with reference to the field of ancient
history, and to point out that as far as I am aware, the
claims tendered by Eusebius in the NT and other works
were not written until the period 312-324 CE.

Your postulate is different from mine. You are wholeheartedly
accepting the "ecclesiatical history" of Eusebius, and the NT
itself - which Eusebius also tendered to Constantine - as an
undisputed source of some form of authority, perhaps
written in the first, second or third century by a group
of totally unknown authors.

If you can see the sense in which below you are also riding
your own hobby horse, then we will agree to disagree on
this postulate.

Best wishes,


Pete

Ben C Smith

I understand that fully. You still could have answered the question. Note that my answer did not assume any authoritative frame of reference in the NT, either; it was strictly to do with how the claims are justified; I neither openly accepted nor openly rejected those claims.

Are you suggesting that the claims people make to the effect that Jesus died in AD 30 are not based on the NT??? On what do people base these claims if not the NT?

Of course, but that did not matter to the question asked. If somebody asks me what Hitler claimed about Jews and gypsies, I can truthfully answer that he thought they were an inferior race; this answer neither confirms nor denies my own opinion of Jews and gypsies.

Likewise, a question asking upon what people base their claims about NT dating in no way demands that the answerer agree with the people making those claims.

In my answer I only spoke about those who accept such things. That I myself may or may not be one of them makes no difference at all.

The question was upon what certain claims are based; I believe I have accurately, though admittedly very briefly, answered the question (those claims are based on the NT, unless you can show otherwise). Unless riding a hobby horse means giving an accurate answer (and that was certainly not how I meant the phrase), there was no hobby horse in my post.

As a matter of fact, I am not sure about any of the data that I presented (!), with the possible exception of the approximate date of the crucifixion.

Ben.

aa5874

The approximate date of whose crucifixion? How is it possible that you may know for sure who Pilate crucified?

Ben C Smith

Hobby horse, round two.

Ben.

aa5874

You need to answer the questions and get off your hobby horse.