Nectaris

Well I think the hell-believer would say in response to this is that god does not want to torture you, but that Satan does. Satan in his desire to torture would attempt to lead you to sin, thus making sure that you will not be accepted into heaven, and, by default, you will end up in Satan's domain. Although, I think this leads to more complications, such questions as: Why can't an omnipotent god not get what it wants? and Why would an omnipotent deity that knows of the existence of such an evil thing allow this evil being and place to continue to exist?

When you think of it eternal torture is an infinite number of times worse than anything any human has ever done and can ever do.

Dave

BATERBOY

Nectaris,

I've often wondered myself that if God is more powerful than Satan, why he just don't destroy him, but then they would have to blame the evil on God and that just won't do.

Nectaris

I could imagine some theist arguning that killing Satan would be destroying free will-the argument would run along these lines:

Satan will tempt us to do evil.
If we are tempted to do evil we have the choice to do evil.
If we are not tempted to do evil, than we will not do evil, and thus do not have free will.
Or something like that.

I think there are other reasons that a theist could come up with, but it's not really my job to make sense of it. It's much less taxing on the brain to simply say, I don't believe any of it

Dave

happytime

If it's Satans will to torture people and Gods will not too, wouldn't god be obeying Satans will by sending people to hell?

As for God destroying Satan, I've wondered a lot about that too. Somewhere in revelation it says God will eventually cast Satan into the abyss. Thats what always bugs me when people start talking about free will. If God truly wanted people to believe in him without interference then he should destroy Satan. It's not a level playing field if Satan can interfere but God can't. And if God is going to base who gets into heaven and who gets tormented in hell on this experiment, then it better be a fair experiment.

Naltariel, I completely agree about God consoling people. It wouldn't be much comfort knowing that God could have done something but didn't and then tries to make them feel better about it.

BATERBOY

I don't see why they say it's not Gods will to torture people. Look what he did to Job, and all the people he put into slavery[at least the virgin girls], not to mention the horrible suffering of all the victims before they died of their wounds. God supposedly willed all these things, so sending a few people to hell to suffer wouldn't bother him in the least.

redzrx

I think if you read jewish essays or speak to a rabbi who studies both the oral and written torah(OT) .. I mean they wrote and studied it since ancient times(Moses and such) you will find that Hell is basically the grave.. Now we will all go there good and bad for a period of time to learn of our sins make us a better person and such( like a purgratory) and all will go to heaven .. except maybe the real bad ones.. Now this is not my belief but the jewish one.. The OT one.(Muslims I have read believe the same)

The Idea of life(when your alive) is to live well and within gods laws and try not to commit sins..

JC and what followed changed all that to a "if your not with us your against us" type of religion which I believe was influenced by Greek and Pagen religion and stories. Now I don't think Jesus himself did that as he says to his people to follow the rules of Moses but Paul and what came after changed what was a Jewish reform type of religion to an antisemetic fear mongering type we have today.

Now I'm not religious myself per se but I have read from both sides of the equation and I have to side with the Jews on this issue..

Thanx
Mario

Endymion83

Ive read on several websites that Christianity originally preached that everyone would be saved. Hell was introduced when the Romans made Christianity thier official religion.

There are some Christians who believe the story of Lazurus is a parable, for example in this article.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/RichM...-Patching.html

funinspace

And some people believe in UFO's. So what? Hell was not introduced when the Romans made Xianity official, nor when Constantine (semi?) converted. There is aplenty of extant texts that predate the 4th century. Justin Martyr, Clement, Origen, and Tertullian are just some of the main ones. A signifcant body of NT books and portion of books are preserved from the 3rd Century. All this predates the "Roman" takeover. One might be able to argue it was an invention of Darth Paul, but even that would be built on a bunch of what if's.

DK

redzrx

Hell was not invented in the NT but the view of it and its purpose changed from Moses and the OT times to when JC and Christianity started (gospels written) . The view of Hell(lake of fire and agony) was not the original OT concept.. Other Factors(cultures) are involved..

See my Point

and again .. find in the OT any reference to a Leader of Demons or runaway angels.. Please.

If you Can't then Fraud comes to mind.


Mario

Endymion83

So, some Christians have different beliefs that you. And what is it that makes your version of Christianity more right than thiers?