Toto

Holy Row in Kashmir over Jesus' Tomb

(The Muslims claim that Sufi saints are buried there and anyone who disagrees is a blasphemer.)

Perhaps Jacolliot is the source for the claim that Krishna was crucified.

Olsson's website:
http://www.jesus-kashmir-tomb.com/

DCHindley

That book, BIBLE IN INDIA: HINDOO ORIGIN OF HEBREW AND CHRISTIAN REVELATION (1870, and is the author's own translation of the original La Bible dans l'Inde, 1868), is available through Google Books here.

The author, Louis Jacolliot, paraphrases the death of "Christna" supposedly from the "Bagaveda-Gita and Brahminical traditions" as follows:

Christna understood that the hour had come for him to quit the earth, and to return into the bosom of him who had sent him. ,

Forbidding his disciples to follow him, he went, one day, to make his ablutions on the banks of the Ganges and wash out the stains that his mortal envelope might have contracted in the struggles of every nature which he had been obliged to sustain against the partizans of the past.

Arrived at the sacred river, he plunged himself three times therein, then, kneeling and looking to heaven, he prayed, expecting death.

In this position he was pierced with arrows by one of those whose t crimes he had unveiled, and who, hearing of his journey to the Ganges, had, with a strong troop, followed with the design of assassinating him.

This man was named Angada. According to popular belief, condemned, for his crime, to an eternal life on earth, he wanders the banks of the Ganges, having no other food than the remains of the dead, on which he feeds constantly, in company with jackals and other unclean animals.

The body of the God-man was suspended to the branches of a tree by his murderer, that it might become the prey of vultures.

News of the death having spread, the people came in a crowd conducted by Ardjouna, the dearest of the disciples of Christna, to recover his sacred remains. But the mortal frame of the Bedeemer had disappeared—no doubt it had regained the celestial abodes .... and the tree to which it had been attached had become suddenly covered with great red flowers and diffused around it the sweetest perfumes.

Thus ended Christna, victim of the wickedness of those who would not recognise his law, and who had been expelled from amidst the people because of their vices and their hypocrisy. (Chapter XVII, pg 249)

So, Toto, you may well be right about this being the mysterious source of the statement that Krishna was "crucified."

=====

As for Jesus' supposed tomb in Kashmir, you can reference Hugh Schonfield's The Essene Odyssey (or via: amazon.co.uk) (1984), which has a fairly decent bibliography and endnotes that confirm much of what was in the article, plus some other details not in the article.

The tomb of Yus Asaph (Yuz-Asaf) ... is at Srinagar in Kashmir. The writer [Schonfield] has not been able to ascertain the approximate date of the tomb on archaeological evidence, since the building over the tomb is sacred, and the tomb itself is in the crypt. It may be accepted to be of great antiquity but reliable ancient testimony is difficult to obtain for a variety of reasons [note that Muslim Sufis rever it, saying that one Anjuna, which is Sanskit for John/Johannes, built the tomb around 89AD. The tomb was first mentioned in documents from 112AD which states, that a protective building had been constructed over the crypt. The tomb is said to have been tended by an Israelic looking family, in an unbroken line throughout the centuries]. These include a lack of venerable manuscripts, differences in chronological systems in the East, , thew conversion of legends into statements of fact, and the insertion into old records of alterations and additions by copyists and translators to suit their own opinions. ...

...

The tomb is located in the Khanyar district of Srinagar in a building called Rauzabal. There are two tombs which are on the ground floor in an inner chamber surrounded by a gallery, and these are visible through a carved lattice-work screen with openings. One of these tombs is nominally that of Yus Asaph, while the other is that of a devotee who lived much later than the prophet [Yus Asaph], named Syed Nasir-ud-Din Rizvi. These sepulchres are oriented north-south in accordance with Muslim custom. But the true tomb of Yus Asaph is in a crypt below, and this tomb is aligned east-west following Jewish custom so that the feet are pointed to the Holy Land.

One of the most important clearly dated documents relating to the shrine is a certification [dated to A.H. 1184 = AD 1806] granted to a former custodian Rahman Mir, entitling to be the sole recipient of offerings made by visitors. ... We give the text in full.

...

After recording evidence it has been established that in the reign of Rajah Gopadatta who repaired the building on Mount Solomon [The Takhat Sulaiman (Throne of Solomon) is a large temple situated on the top of a hillock near the Dal Lake in Srinagar, Kashmir. It was renamed Sankarachariya by the Hindu Maharaja in 1848] and built many temples, a man came here whose name was Yuz-Asaf. He was a prince by descent, and had given up all worldly affairs, and was a lawgiver. ... The prophet Yuz-Asaf had been sent as a prophet to preach to the people of Kashmir. He used to proclaim the unity of God till death overtook him and he died. [This is the outline of the Arabic version of the story of the life of Buddah called Kitab Bilawhar wa-Yudasaf, circulating in Iraq per Kitab al-Fihrist dating from AD 987-988, and so is actually legendary] He was buried in Mohallah Khaniyar on the bank of the lake, (the place) which is known as Rauzabal. In the year A.H. 871 [= AD 1488] Syed Nasir-ud-din Rizvi, a descendant of Imam Moosa Raza, was buried beside Yuz-Asaf.

Without citing a source, Schonfield says that most historians place this Rajah Gopadatta into the latter half of the 1st century AD [elsewhere I found it given as AD 49 -109]. Also, that two inscriptions that were once visible on the pillars of the Mt Solomon monument (preserved in literature datable to AD 1444) say that Yuz-Asaf proclaimed his prophethood in the year "54" [if of Gopadatta = ca. AD 103, but I understand that during that period, the Laukika Era was exclusively used in Kashmir. As this era started in 3076 BC, the "54th" year mentioned in the inscription would probably be year 3154 = 78 AD.) and that "He is Yusu [=Yusuf], Prophet of the Children of Israel (Bani Israil)."

According to an ancient mss (#189 in the library of the Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal, if anyone wants to go check), Badi-ud-Din Abdul Qasim (AD 1174) wrote of the Rauzabal tomb "The tradition of the people of knowledge is that there is one of the disciples of Jesus (yake as hawariyoon) is buried there ..."

Another manuscript [#42 in the same library as above] in the name of Abdul Qadir dating from 1245 A.H. (1867 A.D.) states: "The tomb is described by the people of the locality as that of a prophet of the People of the Book (i.e., the Jews)."

The tradition is also relayed by Khawaja-Muhammad Azam of Deedamari in Waqiat-i-Kashmir or Tarikh-i-Azami (dated AD 1770), and in Mufti Ghulam Nabi Khanyari's Wajeez-ut-Tawarikh (compiled in 1857, vol 1, f. 36). However, it is not certain that this prophet is supposed to be Jesus Christ, although it is suggested that he was a Christian or a Jew.

The idea that this was Jesus Christ (a prophet in Islamic tradition) was heavily promoted by the Muslim Ahmadiyya Movement in articles dating back to 1902, and in an Urdu language book by Ahmadiyya founder Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Sahib entitled Masih Hindustan Main in 1908 (English translation Jesus in India, 1944).

It should be noted that most Muslims consider members of either of the two Ahmadiyya Movement sects in existance as non-Muslims for a number of reasons, although movement members consider themselves Muslims. So, I am not surprised that some Muslims are not happy that folks, many of whom are influenced by the Ahmadiyya Movement, are making a big deal out of Jesus' supposed tomb in Srinigar, Kashmir. It doesn't help that one or more Muslims were also buried in the upper level of the crypt.

Enough already!

DCH

PS to Jeffrey Gibson and/or Mark Goodacre. Guess who is active promoting the Srinigar tomb of Jesus? Dr James Deardorff of "UFO left us The Talmud of Jmmanuel" fame.

rcscwc

Almost nothing is correct.
Bhagwad Gita has no such account. Other books are named here.

Quote:

Christna understood that the hour had come for him to quit the earth, and to return into the bosom of him who had sent him. ,

None sent Him. He came on His own volition.

Quote:

Forbidding his disciples to follow him, he went, one day, to make his ablutions on the banks of the Ganges and wash out the stains that his mortal envelope might have contracted in the struggles of every nature which he had been obliged to sustain against the partizans of the past.

Not found anywhere.

Quote:

Arrived at the sacred river, he plunged himself three times therein, then, kneeling and looking to heaven, he prayed, expecting death.

Kneelimg and looking up to skies is Abrahmic not Hindu tradition.

Quote:

In this position he was pierced with arrows by one of those whose t crimes he had unveiled, and who, hearing of his journey to the Ganges, had, with a strong troop, followed with the design of assassinating him.

His foot was pierced by ONE arrow shot by a hunter Jara. It was an accident because Jara thought he was shooting at a deer.

Quote:

This man was named Angada. According to popular belief, condemned, for his crime, to an eternal life on earth, he wanders the banks of the Ganges, having no other food than the remains of the dead, on which he feeds constantly, in company with jackals and other unclean animals.

Man is Jara. He was not condemned to live forever. He committed no crime, in fact, and was granted eternal heaven by Krishna.

Quote:

The body of the God-man was suspended to the branches of a tree by his murderer, that it might become the prey of vultures.

Not found anywhere. But the body body vanished. Maybe this gave ideas to xians.

Quote:

News of the death having spread, the people came in a crowd conducted by Ardjouna, the dearest of the disciples of Christna, to recover his sacred remains. But the mortal frame of the Bedeemer had disappeared—no doubt it had regained the celestial abodes .... and the tree to which it had been attached had become suddenly covered with great red flowers and diffused around it the sweetest perfumes.

No crowds came. Arjuna broke this news when reached Hastinapur.

Quote:

Thus ended Christna, victim of the wickedness of those who would not recognise his law, and who had been expelled from amidst the people because of their vices and their hypocrisy. (Chapter XVII, pg 249)

Nothing of the sort.

A concocted cock and bull story. Such off the records that one suspects the motives of the author.

DCHindley

I quite agree with you. I cite sources such as this to illustrate where certain ideas originate.

Western writers, especially the British but also North Americans, have a bad habit of reading Christian symbolism into other cultures. It is all part of this idea that certain ideas are common to all cultures, almost like Carl Jung's archetypes, and these are sometimes expressed similarly.

This one, I think, has an agenda. By exposing the symbolism in other societies that has analogues to Christianity (sacrificial death, rebirth, redemption, etc), he was trying to show all religions, including Christianity, are the product of instinctive (animistic) expression, in order to dismiss them all.

DCH

mountainman

Precisely. It is like wearing "Christian Glasses". We have been conditioned to view the epoch of the planet's ancient history between the 1st and the 4th century as the rise to supremacy of the Christian symbolism. When we have the standard issue christian glasses on there is plenty to see, but when they are taken off the plenty to see evaporates to a list of ambiguities.

But the problem in this case is that the archetype has been cast into the ancient historical literary record and when we go and look for it, without wearing the standard issued "Christian Glasses" there we stand in a barren land with respect to the actual archaeologically oriented evidence. Jesus appears as a transcendental figure until his servants stand up and fight for the right to cross the Milvian Bridge as victors.

rcscwc

Exactly. This is the period of Indian history which saw a decline of Buddhism and renaissance of Hinduism.

arnoldo

The historical prescence of Christianity in India is a fact. Diarmaid MacCullough, in his book entitled, Christianity, The First Three Thousand Years (or via: amazon.co.uk) writes,

avi

but, the OP is talking about a disciple of Jesus, not 8th or 9th century.

Sure, and before. Probably at least a thousand years before.

Trade and interaction along the Silk route goes back well before the start of the Roman Empire.

Trade between India and China was so profound, that in the 7th century, the Queen of China, or Empress if you prefer, demanded a daily serving of fresh fruit from the region today called VietNam, or Khmer or Thailand. She got it. They had roads, they had messengers, they had fresh horses at strategic intervals, the men rode all night long, up to Xi'An, and she got her fruit.

Buddhism spread in the 8th century, and before, to China and Japan. How did it reach there? Same roads.

So, we need to take off our Roman/Latin/Greek oriented spectacles, and realize that huge parts of the globe were interacting together, exchanging more than just materials, doctrines, foodstuffs, DNA, and so on....

The Vikings were very active in Persia in the 11th and 12th centuries. We know this because of the presence of disease markers found both in Sweden and Persia (multiple sclerosis, genetically linked to Sweden.)

Commerce, and interaction do not equate to "disciples" or "apostles" of Jesus reaching India, or anywhere else. There are literally scores of churches in Europe claiming to have body parts of Jesus....Any claim that a tomb represents that of Jesus or one of his apostles, is all rubbish. Jesus is a myth. The point is that Srinigar is so far away from Rome, that any claim originating there is beyond the reach of critical examination of the data. Might as well be telling us that the mormon tablets are genuine....

avi

mountainman

It is today however the "early" presence of Christianity in India is a conjecture which is fundamentally based upon the extremely entertaining (and IMO anti-christian satire) known as "The Acts of Thomas" for which Epiphanius in the 4th century is the first earliest witness. The oldest ms for aThomas is the fifth century. Despite this, many academics conjecture that the aThomas was authored in the 3rd century. The Roman Catholic Church finally reconfirmed the 4th century orthodox anathema that the Acts of Thomas was to be regarded as heretical at the Council of Trent. See also Leucius Charinus - the disciple of the devil - as the possible author.

rcscwc

People forget a few xians in India does not mean xianity. What xianity it was which was not noticed by the contemporary Indian authors?

After a swallow does not mean summer. But in this case even that swallow aka Thomas is denied by the vatican!!