rhutchin

I like it. It gives us a good start.

Ben C Smith

That last phrase is telling, I think... regardless of our views of the Bible and the rapture. You, for one, seem willing to act on reason, for the benefit of humankind, apart from what you perceive the Bible to be teaching. That may well place you in a category a bit separate from those who read the newspaper in one hand with the book of Revelation in the other.

Ben.

SeekingKnowledge

Well, I am glad I found you. You can be one of my new followers.

See, I wrote a whole bunch of prophesies when I was young, and they have all come true! I have many followers and have healed many people. This is all too recent to prove to you via the internet, but I assure you that if you believe in me I can heal you too...

One of my visions was that God (My father) has repealed his former judgements upon his people, and that he is very angry with all of the modern day christians. Apparently you have all been following false doctrines invented by clever magicians and scholars many years ago. You have all been duped, and it's time to clarify before you all destroy each other. After all one of the few verses that they got right was that "God is not the Author of confusion"...


But don't worry, he isn't gonna punish you. Fact is, the "Holy Book" has most everything wrong after 1700 years of mistranslation. God doesn't really care about much of what we do, providing we don't harm each other.



Rutchin, it seems to me like you can't refute my statements anymore than I can yours. So assuming we both truly believe what we say we do, we are at an impasse, eh?

(I know I am not scholarly like you folks, but I hope my little parody gets my point across)

rhutchin

What point? I think your parody would work if it read something like this:

And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.

And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.

But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it. But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name. And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done. For the man was above forty years old, on whom this miracle of healing was shewed.

Deus Ex

Your evidence for the miraculous powers of Peter and Paul come from the Acts of the Apostles: a fictional account of early church history. This book was probably written between 90-120 CE.

No reason to believe the events in Acts ever happened.

SeekingKnowledge

Uh, thanks for the (unneccessary) Acts lesson. I thought I told you that this passage was written by heretics and therefore cannot be trusted.

Now I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No man may come to know Gob (<yeah, they messed that one up too), except through me.

All of the sudden your stories and theories are just that. Stories and parables designed to teach people how to be good to each other. You misinterpret the Word, read way too much into, and argue amongst yourselves whilst the world spirals into disaster.

What point? The point (from this undereducated seeker of knowledge) is that you cannot disproove my statements, my miracles, my followers, and my teachings, but I can verify that your ideas are all wrong. God told me so. Specifically.. He came to me in a dream a few weeks ago and said:

"Go ye therefore until the FRDB forum and teach the true word, which has been given to you, and no other.. There are many there who do not believe, and many there who bear false witness. Go ye unto the thread entitled "The Rapture" and speak with a false believer with forked tongue named rhutchin. There will your gospel start in the written word."


Now don't get frustrated because I am using your own logic against you. If you can't disproove what I say, then speak falsehoods no more!

If you want to discuss things based upon reality, come on back anytime (thought I don't think you'll get the same invite from Johnny Skeptic)

SeekingKnowledge

Indeed, less reason to believe the Acts than there is to believe in the Gospel of Knowledge (circa 1992, $9.95 per copy, just ask me) which was written by me recently, and contains many proofs of miracles and prophesies from the 90's... But I will admit that it is fiction.

Rhutchin will never admit that these books are just books written by fallible people with their own agendas.

Deus Ex

Theists seem to set the 'evidence bar' pretty low on miracle claims within their cult mythology. A Fundamentalist Christian has no problem believing in talking snakes, talking donkeys, global flood, a guy walking on water, people returning from the dead, etc..

Ask them to believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven on a winged horse, or that Joseph Smith was visited by an angel in 19th century America, and they will tell you "That is absurd!" :funny:

rhutchin

OK. Each to his own opinion. So, how do we actually determine that Acts is not a truthful account and that conclusion is not just your opinion on the issue.

rhutchin

Regardless whether it can be trusted, it is the basis for your alleged parody.

Jesus did not write anything. Consequently, your testimony alone means nothing. It is your followers who provide a witness of your claims and to whom you should give signs to confirm that they speak for you so that we should believe them.