Chili

Hi, and thanks, I am a bit of a freelancer but can tell you alot more. Please understand that just as the flood story is an allegory so is the Magi story an allegory that has function only in Matthew and probably existed in other/earlier mythologies as well. That is why it is traceable but the fact remains that stars as we know them do not shine like that, nor does the sun stop, or even that the light of common day is an illusion is not readily accepted if that is all we have to go by, etc. I mean, we are lucky to reach a hundred and back then they reached a thousand and we find ways and means to believe that?

Now there may be some mythical value in good old santa but to me he comes across like a full fledged idiot who is stamping on my sacred ground which is what Christmas really is and always was for me (but then, we celebrated the feast of St. Nicholaas (in Netherland) that so kept Christmas a family day and holy maybe?).

It is hard for me to give you something to read because it must suit you and insight is more a gift than a study and I readily admid that I like it at this BBO because it gives me grounds to ponder (and please do not believe anything I write at will if you are not able to defend it. IOW I wil not 'lead' you to believe). A good start is to begin reading and it will lead you to where you belong.

Chili

But I can go on to say that in Matthew Joseph got Mary's sister pregnant who was the temple tramp from the TOK and not the woman from the TOL and so did not come from Nazareth and hence had no manger for the child but this Mary was the Egyptian harlot likely playing gyspsy music in his dream and even according to Ann Landers such a one night stand is not a good thing to do.

Just take a look at how Matthew's Jesus was said to come from Nazareth which was after the fact wherefore then his Jesus was conceived in sin while in abroad in Egypt which may be fun but this child does not fit the lineage very well with no swadling cloths to be found and I wish somebody would have told Billy Graham about that too who actually thought that you can drag bastard children into heaven.

Please note that Nazareth was that beautifull little city of God that exists only in the TOL by way of iconic imprinting [as opposed to phantasm making in lala-land] on the RNA and therefore is likely the last thing to leave behind but has got to go before ascension can take place.

Toto

Landau on HuffingtonPost with an excerpt from the book.

John Kesler

In addition to the Balaam pericope in Numbers 22-24, another source may be Isaiah 60, and in turn, 1 Kings 10.

An additional point of contact is that Matthew's Jesus refers to Sheba's visit to Solomon and claims that "a greater that Solomon" was he. See Matthew 12:42 (also recorded in Luke 11:31). See Jesus for the Non-Religious (or via: amazon.co.uk) by John Shelby Spong.

Dave31

Humm, there seem to be several mentions of 3 Magi throughout Mithraism. Pluck out the relevant quotes if you wish.

The Star in the East and Three Kings

John Kesler

I would be wary of citing D.M. Murdock/Acharya S--who in turn quotes from Barbara G. Walker, a journalist and knitter! You may be interested in this old thread in which I reference an ancient quotation showing that a comet, referred to as "a bright star," was thought to be the soul of Julius Caesar and a herald of the birth of his adopted son, Augustus. Augustus lived from 63 BCE to 14 CE.

GakuseiDon

Roger Pearse has done a wonderful job getting the references to Mithras in early literature. Could YOU pick out a relevant quote, and tell us why it is relevant, please?

Acharya writes:

In the gospel story, Jesus's birth is signaled by a bright star and a visit from wise men or magi, as they are termed in the New Testament, representing Persian astrologers following the star. Despite the stellar brilliance and obviousness, this tracking was apparently not a simple act, since these "wise men" are depicted as nevertheless illogically becoming hopelessly lost and must ask Christ's enemy King Herod for assistance.

Actually, Acharya is wrong to talk about the magi "tracking" the star to Jerusalem. And I have no idea where she gets that they "are depicted as nevertheless illogically becoming hopelessly lost". "Illogically"? "Hopelessly lost"?

In fact, the story doesn't have the magi following the star, at least not until the end as they were approaching Bethlehem. The magi see the star in the east, which indicated to them that a King of the Jews had been born. So they (logically!) go to Jerusalem to look for the child. At Jerusalem, Herod sends the magi on to Bethlehem, and it is only as they approach Bethlehem that the star indicates where Jesus could be found.

GakuseiDon

Yes, that's an interesting thread. I've wondered for a while about stars standing over a location in terms of ancient beliefs, because it doesn't appear to be consistent with those beliefs. Stars were thought to be stuck in the firmament. Comets and falling stars could move, though I hadn't come across references to them standing over a specific location. But then I found this interesting article on the Josephus.org webpage about the Star of Bethlehem:
http://www.josephus.org/starOfBethlehem.htm

The author, Goldberg, quotes from Josephus about a "standing star":

"Thus it was that the wretched people were deluded at that time by charlatans and pretended messengers of the deity; while they neither heeded nor believed in the manifest portents that foretold the coming desolation, but, as if thunderstruck and bereft of eyes and mind, disregarded the plain warnings of God. So it was when a star, resembling a sword, stood over the city, and a comet which continued for a year." (War 6.5.4 288-289)

The author looks at the idea of a "standing star" from between four possible meanings: the plain (or surface), the astronomical, the metaphorical and the prophetic. The author speculates that the words "standing over" may have some significance now lost, though he also suggests that the standing stars might have been metaphorical language to describe either omens or the actions of an angel.

Cege

Was a wise woman among the magi who followed Bethlehem's star?
A revered international authority on the Gospel of Matthew, the Rev. Benedict Thomas Viviano (right), who spent much of this year teaching New Testament at Blackfriars Hall, Oxford University, offers this original theory.

The professor, Dominican friar and priest used his command of Old Testament references and his ease with gender in ancient Hebrew words to suggest that one or more women may have been among the magi who visited the infant Jesus in the brief story told in Matthew's Gospel, Chapter 2.

Viviano's full theory about the possibility of women among the magi will be published next year in "Studies in Matthew" by Leuven University Press, edited by another august biblical scholar Joseph Verheyden.



(Afterall, they did stop and ask for directions )

Chili

. . . but magi are not mystics and women are not gnostics nor can woman be gnostic.