Toto

I came across this:

From Crucifixion in Antiquity by Joe Zias

The same article appears to be here, with illustrations.

What are the implications of this? The crucifixion nail as a magic amulet does not seem to be related to Christianity at all.

Bede (James Hannam) notes in this thread that "Right up until the nineteenth century, the hangman's rope and bits of execution victims were thought to have special properties that made them useful for magicians." One of the books he cites there, Magic in the Middle Ages (or via: amazon.co.uk) notes on p. 36 that Somehow this seems like it should be part of understanding the early Christian story, but I have seen little comment on it.

Catholics do venerate Jesus' nails as relics, although And evdidently Helena recovered the first known nails and used them as magic protection:

andrewcriddle

One possible connection is that it meant that Christian veneration of a crucified Saviour could be misinterpreted as a nasty form of Sorcery.

I suggested in a long-ago thread http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthr...85#post2823585 that this may explain some puzzling features of early Christian apologists such as Minucius Felix.

Andrew Criddle

spamandham

Interesting. Suppose someone claimed to have the crucifixion nails of the son of man himself. I imagine the person holding such artifacts could enjoy the finer things in life.

Maybe the oft asked question "yeah, but why would the author pick crucifixion with nails if there was not a historical core to it" has an obvious answer we've overlooked.

Littlejohn

It is not unlikely that the nails of crucifixion (obviously false!) may have helped to fuel the superstition that the Catholics of the first centuries had inherited from the pagan world, since this context contributed greatly, by "syncretic" manner, the birth of worship Catholic-Christian.

However, at least I believe, the veneration of relics such as nails or similar objects, probably began late in the second half of the second century, when the propaganda of Catholic missionaries had managed to give the impression that Jesus was actually crucified, despite allegations of falsehoods from gnostic world, where it was widely known that Jesus was crucified NEVER.

To justify this "embarrassing" truth, the counterfeiters founders recourse to their "weapon" favorite: the mystification of the real facts! In fact, the "fathers" of the church began to move around items that Gnostics reject the crucifixion of Jesus (as a pure invention of the first half of the second century) because they are "ashamed" of the way in which Jesus was killed, namely, according to the counterfeiters, through the "crucifixion"!

It was not neither the first, nor the last, nor the largest among the many falsehoods and deceit to which the "saints" founding fathers recourse, to protect the hidden truth of their hallucinating "creature" (the catholic worship) and to prevent it was uncovered!

What additional indication (I apologize that it could not be more exhaustive) I make to note that there was an amulet, between the various adopted by the Christian faithfuls more credulous, which represents a powerful interpretative key, among other, to understand or at least intuit the truth that the clergy, for almost 20 centuries now, are trying desperately to keep it hidden, without back before any crime, for when gory and monstrous it can be (extermination of men, women and children: see Cêtari), in order to reach such a "pious" result.


Littlejohn
.

WVIncagold

But could you pound those nails into amulets that allow you to ward off bullets ala wonder woman thats what i want to know.

spamandham

Having participated in dozens of threads here related to whether or not the crucifixion is plausible, I've never seen anyone present evidence such as what you allude to here. Can you support this statement?

Ben C Smith

Many groups thought that the crucifixion was illusory in some way. Some said that Jesus only appeared to suffer and die, but really did not; others that Christ (a spirit of some kind that had fallen upon Jesus at his baptism) left the purely human Jesus right before the crucifixion; still others that Simon of Cyrene was the one that was actually crucified, the switch having been made on the way to the cross.

Ben.

gstafleu

Are we talking finger nails here or the iron things? "[A] nail from a crucifixion, a tooth from a jackal and an egg from a locust" seems to point to body parts, or at least biological entities, and so to finger nails.

Gerard Stafleu

Libanius

What form did the magic take? Healing? If so, the family owning the nails would never buy a casket or tomb. A general could take them into battle and soon conquer the world. Helena would have been so saturated in magic she would have never died. I just love mythology, so many wondrous happenings.

DCHindley

I seem to remember a nail from a cross mentioned in the Greek Magical Papyri, but the index is not detailed enough for me to locate the reference, and I could not find any confirmation on the internet.

Otto Jahn, in Über den Aberglauben des bösen Blicks bei den Alten, "winds up his treatise with a description of six different magic nails. One of these, now in the Collegio Romano, is here reproduced (Fig. 159).(1) Jahn remarks that nails have much to do with human superstitions; that the well-known ancient Etruscan custom of clavum figere was not merely intended to mark the date, but, as Livy relates [Livy, vii. 3; viii. 18, 12; ix. 28, 6], it is said over and over again by tradition of the ancients, that pestilence was stayed when a nail was driven by the dictator.

It is also shown by Pliny (2) how disease could be cured in this way; and by the Romans the mere utterance of the word defigere implied a nail driven, and thereby an act by which fascination or witchcraft was countervailed. In Greek tombs nails have been found amongst other amulets used for the dead as well as for the living. In the present day it is sought by human wisdom to strengthen the power of these nails; hence a nail by which some one has been slain on the cross, or a nail from a shipwrecked vessel, has quite a special power; the first against intermittent fever and epilepsy, and the latter against epilepsy.

Many of these nails had inscriptions and symbols Of magic power engraved upon them, and once more we repeat that each added symbol was supposed to increase the collective power of the whole. Most of the separate symbols found on these nails have been already described as protectives against the evil eye--a fortiori, the nails were potent amulets. Moreover when we perceive in these latter days that all these same animals and objects, together with cabalistic writings, appear in constant use as avowed protectors against fascination, we are not only confirmed in our judgment of their meaning in the ancient form, but we are taught how strong, how lasting, and how universal, is the belief.

1) "It has on one side the inscription ΙΑΩCΑΒΑΩΘ (Jao-Sabaoth), together with two signs, obscure to me, and three stars." One of the doubtful objects is, we suggest, the pincers seen upon many Gnostic amulets, and especially in the three plaques (Figs. 181, 182, 183). "The other three sides are inscribed with cursorily drawn animals amongst these are (a) two serpents, two birds, a bee, a frog, then an unknown creature; (b) a long serpent, then a θ; (c) a stag, a lizard, a scorpion, and a hare, with another unknown, doubtful animal--besides these there are placed on either side three stars and a little indistinct sign." The object next to the stag, "unknown," is certainly like one upon the tablet of Isis (Fig. 185), whatever it may be intended to represent.

On this large nail are the same objects and animals with which we have been dealing already. The only new one is the hare. Even this we see on the insignia of the Constantia Legion (Fig. 64), jumping over the sun's disc. Moreover, we know that hares were held in much esteem among the ancient Britons as magic-working animals. Cæsar says that they made use of hares for the purpose of divination. They were never killed by them for food. Queen Boadicea is said to have had a hare concealed in her bosom, and after haranguing her soldiers to raise their courage, she let go the hare so that her augurs might divine whether the omens were good or evil from the turnings and windings made by the frightened animal. The omen was favourable, and p. 329 the multitude set up a shout of joy, upon which the Queen seized the opportunity, led them to the battle, and gained the victory (Borlase, Antiq. of Cornwall, p. 135). No doubt it is this old belief in the hare as an ominous animal that has survived in our steadfastly held modern one that it is an ill omen to see a hare cross the path.

2) Apparently, the source for this statement was a 4th century work called Medicina Plinii 3.15.1 that had many medical remedies, many from the Historia naturalis of Pliny the Elder.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/evil/tee/tee13.htm#fn_562

"Several treatments are listed for quartan fever (quartanis, probably malaria). The first requires a nail that was used in a crucifixion, which is to be bound to the head with a strip of cloth, or a rope from a cross, then sprinkled with carbonized cow manure."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicina_Plinii (Wiki does have good stuff sometimes)

At PaleoJudaica blog, Arne Halbakken says:

"Hengel, [Crucifixion] p. 32, wrote, "Pliny the Elder, Historia Naturalis 28.36, and the witch in Lucan, De Bello Civili 6.543f. 547, know of of the magical use of nails and bonds employed at a crucifixion."

He also points ... to Joe Zias's Crucifixion in Antiquity article, which has additional information from rabbinic texts on the crucifixion of women and the magical use of crucifixion nails. [see your citation below]

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/200...a_archive.html

"... sorcerers probably carried body parts with them to repeatedly cast spells from them (Papyri Graecae Magicae IV.1950, 2080-85 = The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation, pp. 72, 74); skulls were especially put to such use (PGM IV.1995-96, 2008-10, 2125-30 = GMPT, pp. 73, 75); for example, one could insert written questions into the mouth and receive a spiritual answer, which obviously requires transporting the skull for continued use (PGM IV.2140-44 = GMPT, p. 76); and in other cases a written spell had to remain attached to the body or inserted into its wounds in order to remain in effect (PGM IV.2164-69, 2215-16 = GMPT, p. 77). Similarly, besides human gall and blood, which had many uses in magic, "ulcers marked around with a human bone do not spread," "the hand of a person carried off by premature death cures by a touch," and the "tooth taken from an unburied corpse" operates as a curative amulet, thus these parts would have continual uses, and plants and soil grown "from a skull" have magical powers (yet another reason to keep skulls around), and there were other spells that required "bones from the head of a criminal," or "the tooth of a man killed by violence," or "the skull of a crucified man," or "a nail taken from a cross," and so on (Pliny the Elder, Natural History 28.2, 28.7-8, 28.11)."

http://www.columbia.edu/~rcc20/TheftFAQ.html

DCH