Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Garabato · 04-13-2008, 04:52 PM

As some of you may know, the Catholic church claims that she is the one in charge of interpreting the bible. Some of them may even tell you that she is inerrant on matters of scripture interpretation. A while ago in a forum, I was comparing the idea with the fact that the catholic church used to interpret Genesis as literal before Darwin's time, paraphrasing:

Quote:

"What about the text whose interpretation has changed over time? An especific example is the world creation wich, if Im not wrong, the church used to take as literal until recently. You probably wont find many popes or church fathers that defended a metaphorical view of Genesis before Darwin."

The guy I am debating with said that there is no proof for such a thing. Is it true?

I must admit that I made an unsoported assertion based mostly on what I have heard from some creationist sources, but wich I am now unable to defend. If someone has any quotes implying that medieval catholics interpreted Genesis as literal I would thank you a lot.

xunzian · 04-13-2008, 04:54 PM

St. Augustine had a non-literal reading of Genesis.

WishboneDawn · 04-13-2008, 05:30 PM

Creationist sources are as bad for christian history and theology as they are for science. In every respect they suck and should be avoided. Especially when they say anything about Catholics (as they tend to be of a breed of protestants that doesn't even consider Catholics Christian)

Remember that the biblical literalism we have today is a modern idea in reaction to modern things like textual criticism and Natural Selection. It did not exist before the rise of fundamentalism.

The medieval church had no doctrine of literalism regarding genesis. From Pope to pope ideas may have shifted about but I'm pretty sure you're not going to see anything like a word-for-word literal interpretation. These were people obsessed with scholarship, philosophy and Aristotle...A little too sophisticated for that I tend to think. Of course the lay people may have been another matter.

I do know many in the CoE were quite thrilled with evolution before Darwin and because evolution looked like it explained the process by which God designed us so perfectly. Made for a lot of Sunday sermons. Now, that was just evolution, Darwin's ideas were a different matter.

BillHaines · 04-13-2008, 05:48 PM

Pretty much anything you want to know about Catholic perceptions (past and present) can be found at one or both of these links:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm
Happy searching. :-)

Potoooooooo · 04-14-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xunzian

St. Augustine had a non-literal reading of Genesis.

Can you (or anyone else) please describe it?

Potoooooooo · 04-14-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillHaines

Pretty much anything you want to know about Catholic perceptions (past and present) can be found at one or both of these links:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm
Happy searching. :-)

Could you give me the Cliff Notes version?I asked a similar question here along time age, but never got much of an answer.

WishboneDawn · 04-14-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potoooooooo

Quote:

Originally Posted by xunzian

St. Augustine had a non-literal reading of Genesis.

Can you (or anyone else) please describe it?

From Wikipedia (about half-way done the page with quotes from Augustine):

Quote:

Augustine took the view that the Biblical text should not be interpreted literally if it contradicts what we know from science and our God-given reason

Reasonable chap.

Deus Ex · 04-14-2008, 10:59 AM

http://www.catholic.com/library/Crea...nd_Genesis.asp

This site might help you a little.

WishboneDawn · 04-14-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potoooooooo

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillHaines

Pretty much anything you want to know about Catholic perceptions (past and present) can be found at one or both of these links:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm
Happy searching. :-)

Could you give me the Cliff Notes version?I asked a similar question here along time age, but never got much of an answer.

From Catholic.com:

Quote:

Catholics are at liberty to believe that creation took a few days or a much longer period, according to how they see the evidence, and subject to any future judgment of the Church (Pius XII’s 1950 encyclical Humani Generis 36–37). They need not be hostile to modern cosmology. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "[M]any scientific studies . . . have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life forms, and the appearance of man. These studies invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator" (CCC 283). Still, science has its limits (CCC 284, 2293–4).

It has some excellent quotes on Genesis from early church fathers as well.

WishboneDawn · 04-14-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

http://www.catholic.com/library/Crea...nd_Genesis.asp

This site might help you a little.

We found the same page.

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04-13-2008, 04:54 PM	#2
xunzian Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,691	St. Augustine had a non-literal reading of Genesis.

04-13-2008, 05:30 PM	#3
WishboneDawn Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 4,287	Creationist sources are as bad for christian history and theology as they are for science. In every respect they suck and should be avoided. Especially when they say anything about Catholics (as they tend to be of a breed of protestants that doesn't even consider Catholics Christian) Remember that the biblical literalism we have today is a modern idea in reaction to modern things like textual criticism and Natural Selection. It did not exist before the rise of fundamentalism. The medieval church had no doctrine of literalism regarding genesis. From Pope to pope ideas may have shifted about but I'm pretty sure you're not going to see anything like a word-for-word literal interpretation. These were people obsessed with scholarship, philosophy and Aristotle...A little too sophisticated for that I tend to think. Of course the lay people may have been another matter. I do know many in the CoE were quite thrilled with evolution before Darwin and because evolution looked like it explained the process by which God designed us so perfectly. Made for a lot of Sunday sermons. Now, that was just evolution, Darwin's ideas were a different matter.

04-13-2008, 05:48 PM	#4
BillHaines Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia Posts: 165	Pretty much anything you want to know about Catholic perceptions (past and present) can be found at one or both of these links: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/ http://www.vatican.va/archive/index.htm Happy searching. :-)

04-14-2008, 10:59 AM	#8
Deus Ex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,348	http://www.catholic.com/library/Crea...nd_Genesis.asp This site might help you a little.

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