Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 11-19-2007, 09:54 AM

New film in 2009! But read this!

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...213087,00.html

gstafleu · 11-19-2007, 10:08 AM

A connection between Christianity and the Orient is not as outrageous as one might think. The Sumerians already traded with India, Alexander extended his realm to there, and the Old Silk Route opened for business at about 100 BCE, thus establishing regular commerce between Occident and Orient.

None of which will of course by itself raise this movie from Dan Brown status.

Gerard Stafleu

Clivedurdle · 11-19-2007, 10:13 AM

I thought this bit of the article was bch material.

Quote:

The theory that Jesus's teachings had roots in Indian traditions has been around for more than a century. In 1894 a Russian doctor, Nicholas Notovitch, published a book called The Unknown Life of Christ, in which he claimed that while recovering from a broken leg in a Tibetan monastery in the Ladakh region, close to Kashmir, he had been shown evidence of Christ's Indian wanderings. He said he was shown a scroll recording a visit by Jesus to India and Tibet as a young man. Indian experts claim that documentary proof remains of this Himalayan visit.

"I have seen the scrolls which show Buddhist monks talking about Jesus's visits. There are also coins from that period which show Yuzu or have the legend Issa on them, referring to Jesus from that period," said Fida Hassnain, former director of archaeology at the University of Srinagar.

Hassnain, who has written books on the legend of Jesus in India, points out that there was extensive traffic between the Mediterranean and India around the time of Jesus's life. The academic pointed out that in Srinagar a tomb of Issa is still venerated. "It is the Catholic church which has closed its mind on the subject. Historians have not."

More dramatic are the claims that Buddhism had prompted the move from the "eye for an eye" ideology of the Old Testament to "love thy neighbour" in the New Testament.

In 1995 a German religious expert, Holger Kersten, claimed that Jesus had been schooled by Buddhist monks to believe in non-violence and to challenge the priesthood. Kersten's book remains a bestseller in India.

gstafleu · 11-19-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

"I have seen the scrolls which show Buddhist monks talking about Jesus's visits. There are also coins from that period which show Yuzu or have the legend Issa on them, referring to Jesus from that period," said Fida Hassnain, former director of archaeology at the University of Srinagar.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we found the only real evidence for an HJ... in India!

Quote:

More dramatic are the claims that Buddhism had prompted the move from the "eye for an eye" ideology of the Old Testament to "love thy neighbour" in the New Testament.

As I pointed out in this thread, the "love thy neighbour" idea already appears in Leviticus 19:34. It is much like the golden rule (do unto others...), which is usually ascribed to Confucius, but this Leviticus passage from the P author could predate him.

What this shows is a problem with statements like "has its root in." Christianity was a religion formed by rearranging already existing religious building blocks into a new formation. These blocks were in wide use, including some by Buddhism. So, does the use of these same, widely used, blocks indicate "roots" of Christianity in Buddhism, or just shared use of the blocks?

Gerard Stafleu

Clivedurdle · 11-19-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

the newer north-south Muslim structure was similar to early Hebrew burial crypts, being east-west direction.

Is that correct that Jewish and xian crypts were East West?

http://robertbr.tripod.com/spirit/isakasmir.html

This is interesting stuff!

And this professor is Sufi Islamic who studied Buddhism!

Quote:

Finally, for me, the most interesting Isa reference is found in the Kashmiri Hindu text "Bhavishya Maha Purana" (circ. 2nd c., the name of a specific Sanskrit text of the "purana" category) about king Shalivahana (last mentioned circ. AD 80) meeting a foreigner calling himself Ishvara Putaram (Son of God), Isha Masih (Isha = Isa in Arabic = Jesus; Masih = Messiah), and Kanya Garbam (Born of a Virgin).

premjan · 11-20-2007, 12:01 AM

St. Thomas is held by some traditions to have landed in South India (there is a St. Thomas Mount in Chennai which supposedly holds his remains, though this may or may not be the Doubting St. Thomas - there was another Thomas from a couple of centuries later who might be the one interred). There is also a legend of St. Thomas landing in West India in the kingdom of one Gondophares, and also another tradition of him being somewhere in Iran/Iraq.

As for Jesus himself, some people say he spent his missing years in India. There are definitely some very Hindu-sounding traditions blended into Christianity (starting with the baptism, and even the resurrection is an interesting blend of Egyptian resurrection and Hindu reincarnation). Even if he wasn't influenced by India, he would have found easy acceptance as a Hindu guru. And to many Indians (e.g. St. Thomas Christians) who were very early converts to Christianity, he did.

Roger Pearse · 11-20-2007, 12:18 AM

Here are some contemporary articles on the Notovitch hoax.

Toto · 11-20-2007, 12:43 AM

Fake Saint Thomas Story - claims that the Christian community in India was founded by a merchant, Thomas Canancus in 345 CE, who lead a group of refugess from Persia and was given asylum by Hindu authorities.

Goathead · 11-20-2007, 01:00 AM

Once again i state that Jesus is a local version of Buddha, who is a version of Brahma.Jesus never existed, neither did Buddha - only concepts.

youngalexander · 11-20-2007, 01:39 AM

I am really impressed by this - especially the parallels!

Quote:

"The Bible devotes just seven words to the most formative years of Yeshua's life saying:

'The boy grew in wisdom and stature'.

The || as I am sure you will note, is that in western art iconography

'Jesus grew by vision and statue'

11-19-2007, 09:54 AM	#1
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Jesus in India New film in 2009! But read this! http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...213087,00.html

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11-19-2007, 10:08 AM	#2
gstafleu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,719	A connection between Christianity and the Orient is not as outrageous as one might think. The Sumerians already traded with India, Alexander extended his realm to there, and the Old Silk Route opened for business at about 100 BCE, thus establishing regular commerce between Occident and Orient. None of which will of course by itself raise this movie from Dan Brown status. Gerard Stafleu

11-20-2007, 12:01 AM	#6
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	St. Thomas is held by some traditions to have landed in South India (there is a St. Thomas Mount in Chennai which supposedly holds his remains, though this may or may not be the Doubting St. Thomas - there was another Thomas from a couple of centuries later who might be the one interred). There is also a legend of St. Thomas landing in West India in the kingdom of one Gondophares, and also another tradition of him being somewhere in Iran/Iraq. As for Jesus himself, some people say he spent his missing years in India. There are definitely some very Hindu-sounding traditions blended into Christianity (starting with the baptism, and even the resurrection is an interesting blend of Egyptian resurrection and Hindu reincarnation). Even if he wasn't influenced by India, he would have found easy acceptance as a Hindu guru. And to many Indians (e.g. St. Thomas Christians) who were very early converts to Christianity, he did.

11-20-2007, 12:18 AM	#7
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	Here are some contemporary articles on the Notovitch hoax.

11-20-2007, 12:43 AM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Fake Saint Thomas Story - claims that the Christian community in India was founded by a merchant, Thomas Canancus in 345 CE, who lead a group of refugess from Persia and was given asylum by Hindu authorities.

11-20-2007, 01:00 AM	#9
Goathead Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Australia, between desert and ocean. Posts: 1,953	Once again i state that Jesus is a local version of Buddha, who is a version of Brahma.Jesus never existed, neither did Buddha - only concepts.

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