Amedeo

I see that the thread has already gone off on a tangent, namely biography and ethical evaluation, instead of dealing simply with intellectual influence. So I feel I should come to the defense of Heidegger, especially since in many public quarters attempts have been made to discredit him as a philosopher on account of his having been a member of the National Socialist Party and following its policies.

Yes, it is true that Husserl was a Jew, a person with a non-German nationality. Actually, before the rise of Nazism, the Jews were generally considered as Germans with a different religion. This is how the Jews within various nations were striving to be seen, and so they are understood to be in America: Americans with a non-Christian religion.

The truth of the matter is that the Jews in any country preserved their nationality, that is, they remained Israelites, citizens of the People or Nation founded by Abraham. In Germany, the rise of Zionism made it clear to eveybody that the Jews were people of a different nationality; it is not the case that the Nazists started denying them German nationality.

The Nazists did what the Spanish, the English, and others did in the course of history to the Jewish legal aliens [Jews in exile, as they were called] who had been allowed local citizenship, that is, the right of working, holding political and professional positions and enjoying all the rights of the citizens in the country in which they resided. (There had been times when European city-states or nations granted residence to them in some parts of the land, but they were not to mingle with the citizens or do whatever the citizens have the right of doing.) When the time came that the "emancipated" -- non isolated -- Jews took controlling leadership positions in business and government, the time came for expulsion. So, the history of European Jews has been one of expulsions one after another, for as non-citizens, they had no right to anything. So, all the Jewish complaints about their being persecuted are as good as the complaints of criminals who are being arrested (removed from society). A criminal actually forfeits his civil right, including the right to life.

The persecutions and the arrests are legitimate actions. If the US deported the illegal aliens from this country (the illegal immigrants, the Jews, and whoever else has non-American citizenship), it would act properly, for the only rights that human have are the civil rights (= citizens' right within an instituted republic). Foreigners and people living under a monarchy have no rights whatsover. Rights and correlative duties are established in the social contract that is called a republic. They don't come from some god, they don't come from being human, they don't come from the will of the Elohim who told the Israelites to kill every man as well as the innocent women and children in the Philistine cities. [The Lord said / Dixit Dominus is the beginning of the Psalm that commanded the slaughter of the innocent. That's Jewish morality, if you want to talk about moral and immoral deeds.]

TheBob

Why did you use my question as the point where the thread went off on a tangent? I didn't do it and even if I did, well, I started this thread. I believe I can take it wherever I wish to.

The bolded part: True. They just killed them.

You think it was perfectly fine for the Jews to be kicked out of their own homes, persecuted and murdered? They LIVED there. They did not break German immigration laws, etc. They legally lived there and then all of a sudden they were kicked out and murdered.

You said yourself a criminal actually forfeits his civil rights, his right to life. Then you went on to slander God and the Jews. Well, the people that God had destroyed were criminals in God's opinion and really, His opinion is all that matters. They were criminals and they forfeited their lives. So we both have extreme opinions. Have a nice day.

Amedeo

Of course you have the right to take the thread where you wish and i did not accuse you of having done anything wrog. I merely stated the FACT that the thread was on a tangent and i myself went along this tagent. I made my remark so that, later on, i would not be accused of starting to go off on a tangent.

Your counter-remarks are rather inaccurate. (1) You stated that the Nazis just killed them (the Jews). That is not correct because when the persecution started, many Jews left Germany for England and America, and were helped by germans to get out. Others were interned (an estimated 34% of the German Jews). Of this percentage, some died of malnutrition and some were killed, but most of them were liberated by the Allies and are now in Europe, in America, and in Israel. (2) The internment is the equivalent of arresting or of deportation. The deportation or the internment of non-citizens is perfectly legitimate, as you can see if you understand the nature of rights and duties.. However, if you want to see deportation or internment in terms of morality, there is the problem as to which morality are you considering them. I can say that the Nazis treated the Jews according to Jewish morality, that is, how Jews may treat non-Jews. The Commandments are for the members of Israel, the Nation, but the Bible has many other situations in which God commands his People to act as they did against the Philistines, against the Egyptians (that is, to plunder before leaving), and so forth.

I am presenting Biblical facts, and if the facts slander the Jews and their God, blame the Bible, not me. Since when speaking truthfully constitutes slander? The people of God has two sets of value or codes, and believe it or not, this is the source of problems for Jews in exile. I know that Jews do not want to face this and rather think, with the founder of Zionism, that Gentile are overtly or covertly anti-Semitic (and that's why he wanted all jews to gather in a homeland of their own). So, it has become an established Zionist fact that all the European persecutions have been the result of the immoral nature of the Gentiles. This Zionist fact is a fiction.

sweetiepie

True. But he did more damage in the East than Plato and Aristotle combined in the West.

TheBob

Peace

No Robots

Anti-semitic vitriol.

chieftain

I was just idly browsing this thread when I came across this... this vile screed of anti-Semitic hatred. What brought it on? Why do you say this sort of thing?

Does everyone realise that this poster has just advocated expulsion of all people who don't match up to some unstated definition of non-"foreign"-ness - plus, in a follow-up post, denied the Holocaust completely and defended the Nazi's actions:

Who is this disgusting Nazi supporter?

TNorthover

This is a derail split from here. Thread title is mine, opinions certainly are not.

figuer

What about the Jews that were not Zionist, and wanted to remain in Germany, as Germans with a non Christian religion?

So being a Jew in a non-Jewish country is equivalent to being a criminal, and thus punishable?


Since when are Jews in the U.S. non citizens?