Horatio Parker

I don't get irrelevance from this quote. It seems to me to suggest the opposite of what you're saying.

Gnostics were the first to remove relativity from religion(which in light of Jewish refusal to sacrifice to other Gods seems dubious), the first to develop doctrine, the first to set the new religion in opposition to Judaism, yet are irrelevant to the schism?

Also, you say Gnosticism was a late development, but your quote places these developments in the first century.

Doesn't add up.

Iskander

The first phase is when Christians are still part of Judaism before being declared heretics and expelled from the synagogue. Nothing to do with the second century Gnostic changes.

The next phase is a late one because the schism had already happened. In this phase Harnack says as I quoted.

The Gnostic changes Harnack describes are the consolidation and hardening of attitude of the newly separated branch of Judaism and this change takes place after the Christians had been declared heretics.

The Christian branch of Judaism born in the first century becomes eventually the Catholic Church and the enemy of Judaizers within its ranks. The process of defining the new Christian religion --no longer a sect within Judaism-- begins in the second century as Harnack outlines.

That’s my interpretation of history.

Chili

Nono, the Christians never became Catholics and Catholics never are Jewish reformers, nor will they ever peddle their religion [shit] to a Jew as grafted branch on the same Genesis trunk. Instead, we respectfully bow to each other, always in harmony, sojourning each on our own towards the same end wherein we occupy the same heaven above.

They/we so walk side by side, with the Jews waiting for the first coming of their messiah and Catholics for the second coming in their own life.

Notable here is that Christ moved to Rome to say that heaven is real upon earth and with the example of Jesus before us, heaven is also in our own reach and for this we must do as he did. It just is as simple as that but may be easier said than it is done. I suppose.

So now Catholics never were in their synagogue, nor was the destruction of their temple any part of their plot. This would be a typical Christian ambition just as it was for Mohammed who ran away with only snippets of their worth in the East. Based on recent political developments it is easy to see why these two are at odds will each other, especially now with Christians stealing their land that they call Israel today, while Russia and Rome step aside as if waiting for the showdown to begin, while someone in the audience might say: "they deserve each other" with no more to say.

Not sure if you are saying this right, but it is true that Catholics are a separate branch of Judaism that I called a grafted branch on their trunk to make them NT people only while the Jews remain OT people only, and this indeed happened after the Christian as OT people now with a new dimension added to it were purged and expelled from their synagogue already then.

It is simple logic, Iskander, that just follows clear as a bell. Hence, you can also see now why it is a 'Christian only' idea that Israel is a peace of land instead of a state-of-mind called Is-ra-el (as in 'one-with-god') and while in total oblivion to this will bomb the wrong country again and again (and they would do this simply because there is no coherence in snippets of truth wherein scatterbrains they remain on the lookout for trouble always to quench the fire burning within).

Chili

And no, it really is not easier said than done because metamorphosis is a very natural event that is prior to the animal man and so is natural in nature's own course. And yes, it is natural for each and every human being alive, but only in natures own course.

This would be why Golding called it "easier than eating and drinking" in "The Spire" and in "The Wake" Joyce wrote that 'it is much easier to have a baby than not have one if you are "pregnant with despair."'

This is what salvation is all about, but with Christians roaming the entire planet earth to get the great commission across it is easier said than done because they keep popping cocoons whenever they see a 'suffering soul' during this liberating stage of life, and so right then and there set this 'new creation' free before nature's own time, now as eagle with clipped wings in likeness of themselves, and so now lukewarm they forever will be.

That is what the 'zap' is all about as a premature delivery of the 'child within' to be reborn in God's own time, as Song's 2:7 calls it, contrary to which the inner child is "from his mother's womb untimely ripped" as Shakespeare called it for [duffy] Macduff in classic C of E style to make Macbeth a satire against the C of E, for which they would have quartered him if they understood this play in England. But instead, they praised him for that and so proved the play true to it's message presented to them. Iow, they haven't got a clue what salvation is all about and never will either as goat-humpers they called them already back then.

And they will divided in 'two by two's' to be all over at once forever on the look-out for suffering souls and will print bibles in every language to be all over the world to get 'the job' done, as they see it, while in essence deserve a millstone as spiritual fornicators they are.

Iskander

Catholics were a sect of Judaism before growing up: like the chicken is housed in an eggshell before hatching, so it was that Catholicism was housed in the Temple.

Catholics are the still evolving creation of metamorphosis, Catholics and other Christians are currently known to the maternal eggshell as the worshippers of the mamzer son of a zonah , which translates as ‘ worshippers of the bastard son of a whore’, for others JeZeus, Yorshke or some other childish attempt to insult is sufficient.


There was a religious Jewish man who annoyed some people 2000 years ago, but nobody wants to know what he said because his friends know what he ought to have said.


http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/in.../2012/07/4447/


Messiah Ain’t JeZeus, That’s for Sure!

aa5874

There is no history of Jews in a sect of a Jesus cult.

Chili

I think they were called Essenes back then as 'essence people' in their own right that for the Greeks was the Elysian Field without Elysium as a home of their own. In essence itself this is where Rome became home also for them now as heaven on earth (please don't choke on this one, but is true just the same).

Iskander

The Jews rejected Jesus??

http://noahide-ancient-path.co.uk/in.../2012/07/4447/

http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/mb/63mb.htm
Blessing 12 and


http://www.kesser.org/moshiach/rambam.html
footnote 5

Chili

The guy is absolutely right in everything he writes, and calls them "Christian" to note, and does not know the difference between Christian and Catholic himself.

And for him the charge Buddhism and Islam as wrong is totally ignorant too. Now a slam against the Muslims would be a good charge but he missed that one too.

And I agree that Jesus was not messiah and is never worshiped by Catholics either, with tons of hail Mary's to go with an "our father" in between and never a prayer to Jesus, ever, in their entire bouquet to our God who is Christ and never called Jesus instead.

So I see snot and lots of it too, and if Jews have nothing better to offer they deserve where they are today.And I agree with this too, whole heartedly so. He missed the most important one here and that is the ideal as an idol that [so called] Christians worship wherein Jesus is Lord above all and is worshiped by them without end, who, btw, Catholics deny with no prayer to him at all.

And do you not see snot here yourself?And here he includes "totem poles" even as if with a hard-on for them, and is that not how you make enemies yourself? The poor Indians, I say, regardless of how primitive they are, while he forgets that while strangers in exile in Christen-domain they rose in their claim to fame -- with all respect to them -- where symbiosis is good for them, while they also function as parasites from time to time.

Lets call a spade a spade here and say it just as it is, simply because in the free world the competition is known to be fierce, and they will haul-ass like everyone else to get their share of the wealth.

And do not forget here that I can hold my own wherever I go, but to isolate 'totem poles' as an enemy is worse than beating a child. Shame on him as venerated Rabbi himself.

I have lots more to say, but will stop here now, except maybe to say that as strangers in exile they can be called 'freeloaders' by design similar to a cow-bird that follows the herd where the grazing is good.And note here that this is 'protestant' as 'Christian' by trade.

Chili

. . . and Catholics are not Christians except in their Church Triumphant where they no longer are Catholic, and the bastard son of whore is the Christian TM as opposite to Catholic in their Church known as Militant against them.