Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 12-19-2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro Nut

"Ooh look, it's Nobby God-Topper".

Every wag has its why.

dzim77 · 12-19-2006, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro Nut

Which Roman executioners? These blokes have just slain Time Magazine's man-of-the-year AD 33. They'd have been bragging about it at the pub for months. Bawdy songs would be sung about them. People would point in the street and go "Ooh look, it's Nobby God-Topper". But not a peep. The devil is in the detail as they say.

Boro Nut

Do the gospel writers list the names of every member of the Sanhedrin? No, we only have the high priest named.

Do the gospel writers list the names of all the common soldiers involved in the execution? No, we only have Pilate.

Is this really suprising to you?

Mageth · 12-19-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

The issue according to the NT, ultimately, is not who nailed Jesus to the cross but that Jesus died according to the will of the Father to pay for sins... *of which all humans are responsible and guilty*

Ultimately the Jews nor the Romans are especially to blame anymore than every one of us -as sinners- are to blame.

This is more likely the reason for the seeming lack of urgency to pin down the 'culprit'.

'Twas Beasts that killed the Beauty!

Boro Nut · 12-19-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzim77

Do the gospel writers list the names of every member of the Sanhedrin? No, we only have the high priest named.

Do the gospel writers list the names of all the common soldiers involved in the execution? No, we only have Pilate.

Is this really suprising to you?

No they don't do they. Someone so remiss as to neglect to list their own names can't be expected to fabricate a waterproof yarn. The devil is in the detail as they say. And that includes not having Pilate either. I'm not asking much of my eyewitnesses. I mean, it's just another court case. It's not as if they're recording the most fundamental turn of events in history. I would have thought jotting down the date would have been a bit more helpful than recording conversations they couldn't have been party to that's all.

And yes, I am surprised. These aren't just any old executioners. According to Christian mythology they're the most famous executioners in history. I know who hung Hanratty. I know who shot Martin Luther King - and he didn't want anyone to find him. These blokes did the deed in front of a large crowd in broad daylight. If they ever existed, who were they?

Boro Nut

Gamera · 12-19-2006, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro Nut

Who killed Jesus?

Boro Nut

Who killed Joan of Arc?

Gamera · 12-19-2006, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro Nut

Which Roman executioners? These blokes have just slain Time Magazine's man-of-the-year AD 33. They'd have been bragging about it at the pub for months. Bawdy songs would be sung about them. People would point in the street and go "Ooh look, it's Nobby God-Topper". But not a peep. The devil is in the detail as they say.

Boro Nut

Actually there are many mediaeval traditions about this (and about virtually every other aspects of the gospel narrative). None of these are particularly important to historical Christianity, which is why you don't know about them.

I take it you're totally unaware of the rich Longinus myth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance

aa5874 · 12-19-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

Who killed Joan of Arc?

The Son of some God dies and you want to know who killed Joan of Arc, I think you have your priorities in the wrong person.

Tigers! · 12-19-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro Nut

Who killed Jesus?

Boro Nut

Romans, non-Romans, Jews, Gentiles, poor, rich, educated, non-educated, military, civilian, ecclestial, non-ecclestial, male, female, young, old, urban, rural etc:
All were responsible in one way or another.

Ubercat · 12-20-2006, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Romans, non-Romans, Jews, Gentiles, poor, rich, educated, non-educated, military, civilian, ecclestial, non-ecclestial, male, female, young, old, urban, rural etc:
All were responsible in one way or another.

Hmmm. Next thing we know, you're going to be getting drunk, going for an erratic drive, and shouting anti-semetic slurs when you get arrested.

-Ubercat

Mageth · 12-20-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Romans, non-Romans, Jews, Gentiles, poor, rich, educated, non-educated, military, civilian, ecclestial, non-ecclestial, male, female, young, old, urban, rural etc:
All were responsible in one way or another.

How can I, born (not by choice) as a human infant in 1955, possibly be held responsible in ANY way for something that allegedly happened in CE 33 ??? Note that you're also implying that, even as a newborn, I was somehow responsible.

Such nonsense.

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