Freethought & Rationalism Archive

andrewcriddle · 09-21-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

For some reason the typical feminist critique of ancient society ignores social class (hard to understand from daughters of Marx). Yes the average woman had a hard life in ancient times, but the average man (peasant, artisan) didn't do much better. Only the wealthy elite could enjoy relative freedom and luxury, both men and women. I haven't seen any numbers but I suspect the vast majority of slaves doing hard manual labour were males, as were all soldiers and sailors.

One of the less pleasant jobs in the early ancient world was grinding corn which seems primarily to have been done by slave women.

Andrew Criddle

bacht · 09-21-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

For some reason the typical feminist critique of ancient society ignores social class (hard to understand from daughters of Marx). Yes the average woman had a hard life in ancient times, but the average man (peasant, artisan) didn't do much better. Only the wealthy elite could enjoy relative freedom and luxury, both men and women. I haven't seen any numbers but I suspect the vast majority of slaves doing hard manual labour were males, as were all soldiers and sailors.

One of the less pleasant jobs in the early ancient world was grinding corn which seems primarily to have been done by women.

Andrew Criddle

Well I'll take that over rowing a trireme or mining silver or building some vip's pyramid

premjan · 09-21-2009, 12:11 PM

Grinding corn was only a task in the Americas.

andrewcriddle · 09-21-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Grinding corn was only a task in the Americas.

In British English Corn = Wheat
In American English Corn = Maize

Andrew Criddle

premjan · 09-21-2009, 12:14 PM

Ah

credoconsolans · 09-21-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

Grinding corn was only a task in the Americas.

In British English Corn = Wheat
In American English Corn = Maize

Andrew Criddle

Thank you. I've been wondering all these years how the ancient Romans could worry about corn imports from Egypt when corn was a New World vegetable.

credoconsolans · 09-21-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

One of the less pleasant jobs in the early ancient world was grinding corn which seems primarily to have been done by women.

Andrew Criddle

Well I'll take that over rowing a trireme or mining silver or building some vip's pyramid

Hey but you got paid for those jobs.

semiopen · 09-21-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by credoconsolans

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Well I'll take that over rowing a trireme or mining silver or building some vip's pyramid

Hey but you got paid for those jobs.

You're probably too young to have seen Ben-Hur.

Ben-Hur_(1959_film)

Quote:

After three years as a galley slave, Ben-Hur is assigned to the flagship of Consul Quintus Arrius (Jack Hawkins), tasked by the Emperor to destroy a fleet of Macedonian pirates. The commander notices Ben-Hur's self-discipline and resolve, and offers to train him as a gladiator or charioteer, but Ben-Hur declines, declaring that God will aid him.

As Arrius prepares the galley for battle, he orders the rowers chained but unaccountably orders 41 (Ben-Hur) to be left unchained. When the pirates attack the Romans, Arrius's galley is rammed and sunk, but Ben-Hur escapes and saves Arrius's life and, since Arrius believes the battle ended in defeat, also prevents him from committing suicide during their time afloat. Eventually, they are rescued by a Roman vessel and Arrius is credited with the Roman fleet's victory, and in gratitude petitions Tiberius Julius Caesar (George Relph) to drop all charges against Judah, eventually adopting Judah as his son. With regained freedom and wealth, Judah learns Roman ways and becomes a champion charioteer.

Needless to say the average galley slave wasn't as fortunate.

credoconsolans · 09-22-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by semiopen

Quote:

Originally Posted by credoconsolans

Hey but you got paid for those jobs.

You're probably too young to have seen Ben-Hur.

Ben-Hur_(1959_film)

Quote:

After three years as a galley slave, Ben-Hur is assigned to the flagship of Consul Quintus Arrius (Jack Hawkins), tasked by the Emperor to destroy a fleet of Macedonian pirates. The commander notices Ben-Hur's self-discipline and resolve, and offers to train him as a gladiator or charioteer, but Ben-Hur declines, declaring that God will aid him.

As Arrius prepares the galley for battle, he orders the rowers chained but unaccountably orders 41 (Ben-Hur) to be left unchained. When the pirates attack the Romans, Arrius's galley is rammed and sunk, but Ben-Hur escapes and saves Arrius's life and, since Arrius believes the battle ended in defeat, also prevents him from committing suicide during their time afloat. Eventually, they are rescued by a Roman vessel and Arrius is credited with the Roman fleet's victory, and in gratitude petitions Tiberius Julius Caesar (George Relph) to drop all charges against Judah, eventually adopting Judah as his son. With regained freedom and wealth, Judah learns Roman ways and becomes a champion charioteer.

Needless to say the average galley slave wasn't as fortunate.

Well, if you were a slave, life was shit whether you were a man OR a woman. So unless you think being a brothel slave was any better than a rower...

bacht · 09-22-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by credoconsolans

Well, if you were a slave, life was shit whether you were a man OR a woman. So unless you think being a brothel slave was any better than a rower...

Then as now women work in better environments with less physical demands. Then as now men are expendable, used up in building infrastructure, exploration, warfare, manufacturing, farming, mining, lumbering etc. Then as now women are more likely to pass on their genes to the next generation
The Woman Racket: The New Science Explaining How the Sexes Relate at Work, at Play and in Society *

Then as now rich men and women have better food, health care, education, career options and recreation. Then as now people talk about social justice but the masses struggle.

* mod note: Amazon.com link for US readers (or via: amazon.co.uk)

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09-21-2009, 12:11 PM	#23
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Grinding corn was only a task in the Americas.

09-21-2009, 12:14 PM	#25
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Ah

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