Anti-Creedance Front

I, as an agnostic, consider many Christians to be very sane and reasonable people. However, it seems "fundamentalists" are always the ones that pop up and make noise. I think it's fair to lump all fundamentalists into one category, as most of their denominations only differ in ritual. They all believe in the "pre-Tribulation rapture", which dictates that all believing Christians will be miraculously "taken" from their daily activities and end up in heaven, leaving their possessions behind, ala the "Left Behind" series. As far as I know through traditional teachings though, being raised somewhere between mainline Lutheran and Catholic, God would destroy the world in Armageddon, like most apocalypse tales in religion, including Christians, churches, everything, and Christian souls would be taken to heaven, the sinners' souls cast into hell. In fact, the apocalypse was hardly discussed in my Catholic school, not to mention it was thought not to be coming soon. We assumed we were going to die and be judged when our souls left our bodies on if we had good hearts or not.

This strongly differs from a Baptist kid I knew, whose congregation spent New Year's Eve 2000 in their church praying and anticipating the Rapture. How did the Rapture become so attached to Calvinist-inspired teachings? I think the rapture teachings were created because eternal life after death wasn't good enough for some Christians, they had to have eternal life in their lifetime. The only conundrum I have is, who is this handful of men I read about who, in the mid-1800's, supposedly compiled the rapture from a mishmash of New Testament texts? Do we have solid evidence, and if so, why aren't we using it to refute these apocalyptic cults?

I think fundamentalist Christians have actually gone to the point of trying to bring about the apocalypse through action in this world, like political lobbying groups, "missionary action groups", massive money accumulation, and decisive votes. That's a very scary thing to me.

Baidarka

"I think fundamentalist Christians have actually gone to the point of trying to bring about the apocalypse through action in this world, like political lobbying groups, "missionary action groups", massive money accumulation, and decisive votes. That's a very scary thing to me."

The current issue of New York City's Village voice has a scary article, The Jesus Landing Pad by Rick Perlstein on this subject http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0420/perlstein.php

Note that, ironically, there is an ad at the top of the page with a link to a fundie end times web page.

Amaleq13

I probably shouldn't tell you this but the current President of the United States apparently believes in the Christian apocalypse.

GakuseiDon

Maybe this sort of thing gets kicked around anytime a self-professed Christian enters the White House? I remember reading an article by Gore Vidal about 20 years ago who said much the same thing about Ronald Reagen. IIRC he implied that Reagen was actually trying to provoke a final war against the USSR.

Clivedurdle

I was brought up in one of these rapture churches, and would agree it is possibly a socially constructed idea, but possibly older than nineteenth century. I haven't got it in front of me, but doesn't William James discuss George Fox and his end time beliefs? Doesn't the Canterbury Tales have references?

Is this another example of the clash of modernist ideas and traditional ways of thinking?

A reaction to this new fangled world with inventions and less and less need to rely on God is to ask for a get me out of here card!

Oh come Lord Jesus, come quickly!!

Hmm, not responding, of course we must do God's will ourselves!

judge

Hi Amaleq13!, hope all is well.
I would love to get some more info re this. Is there anything avaliable that you know of?
(Added in edit).... I did find this article from the past week.

funinspace

I agree that it seems to have become more prevalent in the last half of the 20th century, but it is hardly new, nor from the 1800's. There are parts of the NT that allude to it coming very soon. There have been expectations of rapture through out the last 2000 years by cultish type leaders. I don't think Calvinism is the root of any of this, though they share in it. Some new sects have formed right out of Rapture predictions. That has always baffled me. Gee, let's go follow someone like Joseph Smith, who has falsely prophesized the end of the world...

How do you refute fantasy, non-logic, and non-reason? They live in their circular little world.

DK

Mageth

I think you're referring to "Darbyism", or (seven-age, or premillenial) dispensationalism, developed by John Nelson Darby, a British theologian and preacher, in the early to mid 19th century, and widely popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible (1909).

See the following link for more info:

http://www.hccentral.com/gkeys/darby.html

But there was also William Miller, in the U.S.:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...mprophesy.html

(The above link includes more info on Darby's system after the section on Miller).

BTW, the "Left Behind" series is strongly based on Darby's premillennial dispensationalism.

Interestingly, I've mentioned to a few Xians around these parts that their end-time beliefs are based on something Darby cooked up in the 19th century, and generally get "blank stares". They think, apparently, that their beliefs came directly from the mouths of Daniel, Jesus and John. It amazes me how little some believers know about their own beliefs.

Mageth

BTW, we need to be careful to distinguish between the concept of Jesus' return (as anticipated in the NT) and the concept of the "Rapture" as described in Darbyism and popular among evangelical Xians, particularly in the U.S. They're really two different concepts, or events (in Darbyism, there's a rapture, and then sometimes later, after the "tribulation" by some accounts, Jesus returns). Darby's concept of the Rapture is, for the most part if not entirely, a 19th-century invention.

Also note that there have been several variations of dispensationalism that have become more or less popular.

Javaman

Thanks from me to Mageth for the PBS link. I didn't know they archived that much good stuff from the show. The main page has other good reading, BTW. Given that I know many believers that haven't read much, if any, of the Bible, I doubt many at all are aware of the origins of their apocalyptic beliefs.

Why did I have to read that Mageth is in Austin? That's one of two cities I really miss (the other being Cincinnati). I sure could go for some brisket from The Pit (or some Skyline Chili from Cincy).