Originally Posted by rhutchin

I did not know that. Do you have the exact language from the Koran stating this?

Originally Posted by punk77

No - he is saying that they can never be forgiven: '...whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.'

Originally Posted by Dogfish

Judging from this, I take it you have never questioned your beliefs or considered the claims of others?

Originally Posted by Dogfish

So, it's an eyewitness account because is SAYS it's an eyewitness account. You'll have to do better than that.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

The claims of other religions seem to fall into two categories. The first is that there is nothing you can do about your situation so don't try. The other is to be as good as you can and hope for the best. What claims do you think about when you consider the claims of others.

What should I question about my beliefs? Should I question the idea that a person is accountable for what he does and will receive the reward for his sin? If it is true, what good does it do to question it? If it is false, how would I know?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Judge for yourself whether Paul and John were telling the truth. You choose whether to believe because of that which they say and not because of anything I might say about them.

Originally Posted by makerowner

Here's a few. There are probably hundreds.

So I guess you'll be converting to Islam now, right? After all, the book said it was inspired by God, so it must be true.

Originally Posted by makerowner

Also, where exactly in the Bible do you find a listing of canonical books and an explanation that they are all the word of God? And don't use that one about 'all scripture is from God', because there was no defined canon at the time.

Originally Posted by Dogfish

Why does "I believe it to be true: you judge for yourself" only seem to apply to christians?

Originally Posted by rhutchin

OK. I got off on a tangent thinking that you were saying that God actually wrote the Koran sota like the angel Moroni providing gold plates to Joseph Smith (or whoever). I get the inspiration part.

So now we have the Bible which God is claimed to have inspired men to write and the Koran which Allah is claimed to have inspired Mohammed to write. I guess we get to choose between the two which one to believe, God or Allah. I will go with God as he has provided a means for my sins to be forgiven. From what the Muslims tell me, Allah has not done this.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Let's limit the canon to those books written be recognized prophets of God, the apostles of Christ who were taught by Christ and those who were closely associated with the apostles of Christ and recorded the apostles' activities.

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Jesus appears to two disciples on the road to Emaus.

- After that, [Jesus] appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. (Mark 16:12)

- Now behold, two of them were traveling that same day [when Christ was risen] to a village called Emmaus, which was seven miles from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:13)

The two go back to the “eleven” and tell them what happened.
- So they rose up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together,
- saying, “The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!”
- And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. (Luke 24:33-35)

- And they went and told it to the rest, but they did not believe them either [as they did not believe the women earlier]. (Mark 16:13)

Jesus appears to the”ten” as Thomas is not present.
- Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” (John 20:19)

- Now as [the two from Emaus] said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.”
- But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
- And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? (Luke 24:36-38)

- When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. (John 20:20)

- “Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
- When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. (Luke 24:39-40)

- So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
- And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
- “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23)

Thomas’ absence noted.
- Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. (John 20:24)

Jesus eats with the “ten.”
- But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?”
- So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.
- And He took it and ate in their presence. (Luke 24:41-43)

The “ten” tell Thomas what has happened.
- [Later,] The other disciples therefore said to [Thomas], “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25)

Jesus appears to the “eleven" at a later date (eight days?).
- Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. (Mark 16:14)

- And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!”
- Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
- And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
- Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
- And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
- but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:26-31)

Jesus meets the “eleven” at Galilee.
- And [Later in Galilee] He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature….(Mark 16:15)

- Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
- When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
- And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
- “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,… (Matthew 28:16-19)

Your claim is, "It can't be Jesus' 2nd appearance to them some time later (as recorded by John) since in that incident Thomas is the only one still doubting and thus the only one receiving Jesus' rebuke for unbelief. "

The issue is what Mark means in v16 when he writes, "Later,..." How much time elapses between v15 and v16. The context in Mark does not tell us. From John we learn that Thomas was absent when Jesus first appeared and that Jesus did not confront him until eight days had passed. Given the information that John provides us, Mark would have to mean eight days later when he writes, "Later,..." John is an eyewitness to the events since he is one of the "eleven" and there is no reason for us not to believe him. Given the specificity in John's account and the ambiguity in Mark's account, we should understand the ambiguous Mark in light of the specific John.