Johann_Kaspar

http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/westsem/cow.html

Now that does not tell us if the cow was understanding Hebrew and/or Aramaic. So further studies are needed.

:wave:

spin

EDIT: rereading the question, ebraisti <= ebrais is the Hebrew language.


spin

cass256

As I said I was half kidding, when I asked for the BDB. The five porches struck me as funny the first time I read it. I just had to use it at some point. You take yourself too seriously. When you are arguing over terms with no "Authoratative" dictionary definition, there is no proof the Hebrew tongue said Bethesda in Hebrew, much less that it was said at all. My God we're talking about the Bible. There may have been no Bethesda in existance, as there was no Nazereth at the time of "Jesus". The Bible is full of misinterpretation. if it makes you feel good to believe there is no other choice than a Hebrew word meanind Bethesda, keep it, find it or let it go. whatever floats your boat.

About the bible..
It says itself quoting Yahweh that prophets prophesy falsely in his name, the scribes write and the interpreters interpret falsely. We can only go by what we find. There is no absolute authority when you are dealing with part fiction, or falsehood written in the name of the god of the Bible.. jesus called Pharisees blind guides, liars and hypocrits, ravening wolves. Paul was a Pharisee and proud of it.

Pilate

I was asked which sources I consulted in my studies for the Gospel of John and I provided some of them. I have collected thousands of ancient quotations, because I knew no one would trust my word. If I had a serious discussion, with a serious audience, in a respectful environment, I could get into this evidence in more detail.

spin

No-one was asking you to "get into this evidence in more detail". When one asks for a list of sources it doesn't mean just a list of names.

One doesn't trust the word of a proponent of a position; one trust the evidence which supports the position.


spin

Pilate

Cass (I like the way you sing),
Thanks for the encouragement. I learned quickly how to handle the situation around here. I will speak for the silent majority, in all humbleness: I make mistakes. I am not a guru. And I won't laugh at you if you goof.

I would ask you and everyone who read this, when you refer to a word of a verse, provide the whole verse for the benefit of the audience.
Here is the verse:""Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet" (Psalms 22:16 NIV)
When you deal with an issue like this it is a good idea to look at the TANAKH (this is the official Jewish version of the Old Testament)
Here is what it says: "Dogs surround me; a pack of evil ones closes in on me, like lions [they maul] my hands and feet." (Psalms 22:17 TANAKH)
Note in the Hebrew manuscipts the words "they maul" are not there, they are implied.
Now, I will leave here for someone else to take over. First, I am not an expert in Hebrew, and I have not done homework on this.

cass256

Thanks Pilate, and believe me you don't want to hear me sing.

And yes, I should have even provided more specific quotes in my last posts to spin, but I was running short on time and .. well.. I'll clean it up. I find it interesting that the biggest argument on a thread that is about wether or not the last words of Jesus were the same in 4 gospels, boils down to what language john wrote his story in. I am confused on what the point of the proof is.
If John wrote in Greek, does that mean Jesus did or didn't say those words, my God my God. I don't even know if I am supposed to capitolize the G. The whole Bible talks about the importance of the name, and salvation was in a certain name, you have to "fear" the name...and the whole world doesn't know what that name is. So, when I read Psalm 22, I read the Hebrew enough to know that the word used almost every place "Lord" is written is 4 Hebrew consonants, and it is in Psalm 22. YHWH. Hashem "the name" ....but, I guess we all have our own ideas on what is import, and everyone will argue from that point.. or just for the sake of argument.
I really wish we at least had 2 the same. The god of Moses required 2 witnesses to establish something, some proof. We do not have that.
It would make sense if Yeshua called out on the cross to his Father, his God, he would use the Hebrew that was handed down by YHWH to Moses as is believed by many and used to address God.. He would use it in his Father's house, the Temple. he would use it on the cross. but who knows? maybe he WAS calling for Elijah. JUST KIDDING SPIN

cass256

From Exodus 6 YHWH explains himself.
Exodus 6: 2 And ELOHIYM spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am YHVH:

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El Almighty *****but by my name YHVH I did not make known to them.*****

Now moses had no idea what the name of the israelites' God was, he had previously asked the god who should he say their god was when went to convince them their God sent Moses who was the first to hear that name.

Genesis 28:10- is only one ov several that show the inconsistant statement

10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.
...
12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

13 And, behold, YHWH stood above it, and said,***** I am YHWH God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac:***** the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;


Straight out contradiction from what the YHWH told Moses. He announced himself as YHWH to jacob and then later tells moses who he is but that jacob was not known of him as anything but El Almighty. IT matters! He went on to force Israel to follow this god, they were not given a choice. El had been the IsraEL God. El is passive, the canaanite father of the gods.. The most high. The sons of god were YHWH Baal and the pantheon.


On anything else I have said I will post references if asked.

The blood and guts orders to kill both animals and men, and the rest i will leave for anoyone to read themselves. I can provide ample evidence, and that YHWH was also worshipped as Baal, and was the god who answered the prophet of Baal.

Pilate

Can you clearify what you are saying? I don't understand what you are driving at.

Pilate

What more do you want besides the names of the books and their authors?