The Dagda

Matthew 11:11; I tell you with certainty, among those born of women no one has appeared who is greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least important person in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Mathew 11:11; ἀμὴν λ�*γω ὑμῖν, οὐκ ἐγήγερται ἐν γεννητοῖς γυναικῶν μείζων ἰωάννου τοῦ βαπτιστοῦ· ὁ δὲ μικρότερος ἐν τῇ βασιλείᾳ τῶν οὐρανῶν μείζων αὐτοῦ ἐστιν.

I remember seeing a documentary that stated that this translation was in fact a false translation and the last sentence had been added after the fact. Now I can see why the Church might have done this, but is there any truth to this, and if so what could be his evidence? IIRC he was a Assistant Professor of Theology at Oxford, so he probably had some basis for this? Anyone know why he might of claimed that, or in fact if it was correct that The Bible had been so obviously changed, to completely alter the meaning?

Jeffrey Gibson

It would be of immeasurable help if you could remember the name of the person in question. How else can we discover why "he might have claimed" what your memory says he did?.

And what leads you to believe that the translation you give of Matt. 11:11 is "false"?

I take it you have no Greek?

Jeffrey

Chili

I think that line belongs there but it is no surprise to me that they can't figure that out in Oxford. It sure fits well with Worthsworth's Ode "the child is the father of the man" wherein the child must give rise to the man first so that later he can be raised and become one in him.

It simple means that although the father is greater than the son, the son first must 'be' (to 'on') before the father can be[come] known to the son. Or, more at home with us, if the reign of God is already in our midst, we must be born into that reign before it can be explored to become known to us.

The Dagda

Oh the Greek is I presume accurate? But is that the original Greek? No I don't speak Greek.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Dr-Ro...-Bible-107mins

Dr. Robert Beckford, Academic Theologian. It wasn't in this series he made the claim rather it was in a series about the origins of Christianity, and the cults surrounding Jesus' life pre-Roman Catholicism.

Jeffrey Gibson

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to tell us what the nature and extent of your acquaintence with Oxford and the theological faculty there is.

Did you study there? Have you sat in on the graduate and senior seminars run by the New Testament faculty? Presented papers there? Attend lectures given by any of the members of the faculty?

Have you even ever been to Oxford?

Jeffrey

The Dagda

I have been inside Brookes University Oxford, I have got drunk in their Student union countless times, I have also met many of their students, they seemed relatively bright. I haven't met Dr Beckford though.

I'm not sure which documentary he suggested it in, but I remember clearly he questioned the translation. It was one of those in the Wiki link.

You can see all of them for free on Youtube etc, if there is no one who is aware of this claim, I will try watching them later to see if I can't point out when he says it.

Jeffrey Gibson

As opposed to a non academic one?

In any case, Bedford is not -- and to my knowledge has never been -- a member of the theological faculty at Oxford. Nor to my knowledge has he ever written/published anything on Matthew.

And when would this be exactly?

]May I suggest that when you have a question about the text of Matthew and the meaning of any particular Matthean verse, you do what many people here seem to studiously avoid doing -- and that's to consult such commentaries on Matthew as those by Noland, Haegner, and especially by Luz (in the Hermenea series) and Davies and Allison (ICC)?

Jeffrey

The Dagda

That's his title, don't ask me why he's called that.

He is however a member of Brookes University Oxford, which is indicated by the wiki link. He also has his own web site. And it's Beckford.

A couple of years ago. I'll try and find the comment later, in case you accuse me of making it up.

Of course wait while I find £30 and buy them.

It's not a question about the verse, it's a question of the copying of the original documents to the KJV and so on.

Jeffrey Gibson

Brookes University is not part of the University of Oxford.

Nor were you likely to. He is not at either Brookes University, nor is he a member of the Theology Faculty of Oxford University.

In any case, I note that in the above, you did not answer any of these questions:

But what you did say shows that the answer to them is a resounding no.

So how you can claim that you know what things coming out of Oxford "sound like" is beyond me.

Jeffrey

The Dagda

Never mind.

I said he was an Assistant Professor at Oxford. Not at Oxford University.

If this is the level of response, I think I'll just give up and put it down to a professional disagreement between you and someone you've never met. Thanks anyway.

Dr Robert Beckford works at Brookes, unless the University web site are liars.

http://www.brookes.ac.uk/res/experts...obert_beckford

Can I ask is it your time of the month or are you usually this obnoxious?