show_no_mercy

I always viewed theism as inherently narcissistic. Why, I always asked myself, would an omnimax diety even bother itself with us insignificant human beings? I figured the theists' mentality was that human beings are the pinnacle of all creation, the greatest thing since sliced bread, and therefore the only thing better than us would be God. All of this vaingloriousness hidden in a cloud of false meekness. Not to mention the overabundance of anthropomorphism that occurs in countless religions.

It is the very antithesis of humble to think that an omnimax God would concern itself with us. That would be akin to a man who created the sahara desert and obsessing over the life decisions of one grain of sand. This thought process is what actually converted me from Christianity to Deism, and subsequently Agnosticism.

graymouser

Theism in general is fundamentally anthropomorphic and narcissistic. It is the re-creation of the human order on a cosmic scale, the casting of beings like ourselves in control of the universe. Psychologically, I think most theistic ideas come from a narcissism, and that most gods are little more than reflections of their prophets and worshippers. For instance, Jesus Christ is little more than a mirror for Christians; a Christian will see in Jesus no more or less than himself or herself.

I agree that it is narcissistic as well to think that humanity would be contacted by a universal creator and have some special significance for said creator. But those narcissistic impulses are, evidently very difficult to quell in the masses. :huh:

-Wayne

Godless Wonder

It is odd. I mean, it's as if there was an ant pile in the Australian outback, and some of the ants came up with an idea, (and convinced many other ants that it was true) that a human Sea Captain named Horatio McAllister was "one day" going to come hiking by when he came back from the sea, where he's been voyaging, and he was going to say "Arrr!" in a very menacing way, and then kick the ant pile to flinders, and separate out all the ants that had believed this story about the "Arrr!"-saying ant-pile-kicking Horatio McAllister from those ants which did not believe the story, and that those that did believe would be packed away in an ant farm and taken on a fantastic Sea Voyage to Ant-Paradise-Island, and those that remained would be soaked in gasoline and lit afire. Such silly ants. Such a silly story.

Once a Christian friend, one of these "personal relationship with Jesus" types, told me I was arrogant to be an atheist. I said, "You think I'm arrogant? You're the one who thinks you're on a first name basis with the Supreme Creator of the Universe."

So strange.

fast

:rolling:

that's funny!, I like that.

Groovy Cosmic Monkey

On what basis do you believe humans are insignificant? Is it because we're small?

But Christians, for instance, also argue that humans are profoundly sinful and deserve God's wrath. Moreover, they would argue humans are able to have a relationship with God because of God's grace, not because of any merit of humans. Surely that would militate against a finding that Christianity is narcissistic.

I think there is certainly a great deal of anthropormorphism in some religious circles, but if humans were created "in the image of God" then you would expect at least some degree of analogy between humans and God. At any rate, a lot of anthropomorphic discussion of God occurs in order to metaphorically explain attributes of God rather than to provide a detailed analysis of them.

Is it? I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling that God concerns himself with me because I'm so fantastic and deserve to be loved. I'm thankful that God concerns himself with me despite my insignificance and sinfulness. I don't think that's particularly arrogant.

Groovy Cosmic Monkey

Hopeful Monsters

I agree that narcissistic impulse is a useful insight on religious belief.

(1) Religion is anthropocentric and egocentric in its roots - for centuries Christian religion held that the Earth was the centre of the universe and the Sun orbited around us

(2) Religion creates gods and then has that god watching us, fussing over us, listening to our prayers and even visiting us individually

(3) Some religions have us as being created in the image of a god. Religion is self-worship.

(4) In dismissing evolution, some theists will throw out stuff such as:

“If you want to believe you evolved from pond scum, that’s up to you�? (real example from another discussion board)

or

“I know that I could not possibly have evolved from an ape�? (I heard a woman say this on a radio station)

or the classic

“We didn’t come from monkeys�?

Aside from the misrepresentations of evolution here, this is another way of saying we are so special, so much above and beyond all living creatures, that we cannot possibly have merely evolved.

(5) Notice how, for example, Jesus is depicted. Notice how he is depicted in paintings and sculpture. Notice how he is depicted in The Passion of The Christ. People are merely admiring a “one of us�? figure. Notice how “God�? is a “Him�?. Religion is self-worship.

(6) In Christianity there is an intricate emotional fantasy about Jesus visiting us, sacrificing himself for us to save us, to redeem us etc. The fantasy is a self-centred one.

(7) People celebrate and promote a narcissistic sense of tribal identity through religion – look at how people proudly pitch religious group identity against others: The Bible against The Qur’an or Jesus against Muhammad.

(8) Religious belief is ego-centred in its desire for immortality.

The point is that atheists aren’t free of narcissism (not at all, they are only too human too) – but that it reveals what might motivate religion to arise and be held onto so fiercely.

Hopeful Monsters

There was a heated exchange about exactly who (theist or non-believer) might be being arrogant and egocentric - in this Thread in EoG: Why would anyone want to be an atheist?

Plognark

You've got a funny definition of arrogant then :huh:

Let me put it this way: Your world view claims that all humans are absolute filth, sinful pieces of walking shit, basically. You, me, the clerk at the convenience store and everyone else.

And then you have the insane egotistical arrogance to say that the omnipotent creator of the universe is going to give you a free pass on being a piece of shit for following some silly rules in a two thousand year old book, while everyone else is fucked.

Arrogance is an amusing understatement.

Groovy Cosmic Monkey

Nope: Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance. Let's see if I match this definition.

Well, my worldview holds two concepts together. 1. God is inherently all-loving and created us, just like he created the entire universe. 2. Humans are all sinful and don't deserve God's love.

Thanks, love you too.

Who said anything about "following rules" giving you a free pass?

Who said anything about everyone who doesn't follow rules being fucked?

Thanks. You know, presuming to know exactly what I believe could be interpreted as arrogance. In fact, I do interpret it as such.

Groovy Cosmic Monkey