Graeme

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Leviticus (the and oft-quoted passage that apparently condemns homosexuality) is a part of the Old Testament, and Christians often claim that the OT doesn't apply because Jesus brought the 'new law', then shouldn't the religious objection to homosexuality only apply to Jews?

NearNihil Experience

Yes.

But unfortunately, there is quite alot of debate as to exactly how much of the old law is to be kept. Christ does say, "honor thy mother and father", but he also says its ok pick grain on the Sabbath. Give one Commandment, let another go.

Christ preached to honor God the Father above all else, and to treat your neighbor as you would be treated. These kind of contradict since God the Father( and his rule book are the OT) wants you to hate and kill certain neighbors(withches, homosexuals, rape victims etc...), but then throws it all csrewy by advising that we also treat them as we would like to be treated...evidently witches and homosexuals want their neighbors to be burned at the stake, poisoned, or executed.

There i9s no rhyme or reason to why some people choose to follow certain rules, and others, other rules. Its just a big convoluted book and story to help one find justification for any belief or action. Thats why the NT and OT seem so different, they are, with similar veins, but in all are just a tool to promote doublethink and hypocracy.

Mageth

Christians, of course, make special exceptions to some of the Levitical laws, claiming they still apply while others right beside them do not. Thus, they can declare homosexuality to be an "abomination" to their table mates over a meal at Red Lobster.

I read an interesting bit the other day that made me think about the Levitical law against homosexuality. It seems that some other religions in the region at the time practiced "fertility rites" at temples to encourage the growth of their crops etc, rites that included ritual sex with both male and female prostitutes in the temples.

It made me think that perhaps the law against man-on-man sex was a reaction to and prohibition of the practices of these other religions, as many of the other laws were; many of the laws (including dietary laws) had the intent of separating and distinguishing the Hebrew religion from other religions in the region. And many of the Hebrews apparently dabbled in these other religions, which tended to anger the devout Hebrews.

Graeme

I agree with what your'e saying, but I'm more thinking that this specific techical issue could be a very effective way of fighting anti-gay bigotry on biblical grounds. I just want to make sure that my suspicions are techincally correct, as my biblical knowledge definitely isn't that comprehensive.

Mageth

Christians claim that the New Testament, Paul specifically (Jesus is silent on the specific issue of homosexuality), prohibits/condemns homosexual acts as well.

(I should say "some Christians" - there are Christians, of course, that are tolerant of homosexuality).

NearNihil Experience

Troll through the red letters...Christ will come to say he has not been sent to the righteous, but to spread the message of salvation to the wicked. And that only God is to judge who is worthy of Heaven. Sometimes , depending on the Gospel, he'll say he has the power to do so, sometimes he says only the Father.

Biggest evidence I could think of is who Jesus actually associated with, theives, terrorists, whores.

Hate the sin not the sinner is a good thing too. Trying to convince the person to change their ways is biblical, destorying the person or condemning them as the person they are is un-Christlike.

Letting the be as it will be and concerning yourself with your personal relationship with God is really a much higher order than rooting out sin in ever crack. You honor God more by thanking Him for the things you are and have, than you do by going out and playing hate on the heathen.

Check out the SkepticsAnnotatedBible.com for easy references by subject as to NT OT contradictions, who (Christ or God) has the last say and power, and what sort of contradictory things pop up in the Gospels themselves. They have an easy to search index, but take what you read with a grain of salt and do a little more research on it yourself to be sure they haven't taken it out of context.

The Devil can quote scripture too...I suggest trying that.
It just may take a little studying of Christs words and comparing them to the culture he was a part of and was conditioned in.

Sorry I don't have specifics, I don't have my bible with all the little scraps of paper sticking out of it with me.

Mageth

Read Romans 1, particularly from about verse 26 to the end, for one NT source that many Christians use to condemn homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is another.

Nectaris

Mageth already mentioned Paul's letters, and while I was making lunch the thread expanded quickly.

Paul condemns homosexuality in the NT. Check out Romans 1:20 till the end (to long to post here, I think), but here's a link:

Romans Chapter One

Also 1 Corinthians 6:9, Paul also condemns homosexuality (from the NRS):

If I'm not mistaken all the condemnation of homosexuality in the NT is limited to Paul's letters. Since most Christians except Paul's letters as gospel (pardon the pun), that would mean that homosexuals are still offensive to their god and them.

Dave

RED DAVE

From Nectaris:
I'm only vaguely familiar with Big P's letters. Are the ones that condemn homosexuality those that are considered forgeries, those considered authentic or a mixed bag?

RED DAVE

Julian

If the problems the xians have with homosexuality is bible-based then why do they condemn lesbians as well? I read Romans 1:26+ as relating to male homosexuality only. Is there a justification for hating lesbians as well?

Julian

PS. I use the word 'justification' in a very loose sense above...