The Midge

There is still tacit slavery today. If your trainers and clothes come from a sweat shop where people labour for a pittance is there any difference? I do not approve of that anymore than I approve of slavery. The underlying principle of hebrew slavery laws and Servant leaders is this: Treat those who work for you or are under your authority decently. In modern business terms these people are called "Stakeholders".

MachineGod

I would have to agree with Midge.
He has made many valid arguments, as to who the text was directed to, and shows that there was indeed laws to protect the “slave�. He has also pointed out that the definition of slave is no necessarily a constant.

When most think of slavery, they envision the worst. Slavery still exists today, even by America, but is only given a different term to describe it. I think it could even be considered that, if you owe someone (i.e. mortgage with interest owed) you could be considered a slave to the lender. Another example is the employee/employer (slave/master) relationship. Hence, the expression “a slave to society�.

In this sense, there are many laws now days that govern the treatment of a slave that the master must adhere to. Much the way the bible portrays the subject.

In reference to the bible, I can’t remember anywhere where it said that it was ok to treat your slave with brutal force. It may have mentioned that some masters did this, but does not say it is the right thing to do.

Vinnie

Weren't you allowed to beat your slave almost to death in the OT?

Vinnie

Ex21:

20Death is the punishment for beating to death any of your slaves. 21However, if the slave lives a few days after the beating, you are not to be punished. After all, you have already lost the services of that slave who was your property.

You can beat your slave half to death. Hell, 3/4 to death, 9/10 to death and so on. Beaten slave only has to live. How is this not brutal force?


Edited to add...check out this version:

20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Slave is gender neutral. YOu get to beat the shit out of your women slaves with a rod too.....

And this is the word of a loving and good God. Only in the eyes of blinded idiots.

Vinnie

MachineGod

Hmm, how would you interpret this verse that followed? Just curious.

Exodus 21
27 If he [the master] knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free for the tooth's sake.
<emphasis added>

WinAce

You'd change your tune if you owned a cute female slave or two and they refused your advances, Vinnie. Just make sure not to knock out any teeth or eyes of theirs, or you'd have to let them go free.

Stephen_BostonMA

Interestingly, fundamentalist Christian groups don’t seem to be leading the movement to end sweatshops and boycott companies with unfair labor practices. They instead lose sleep over things like gay marriage.

The Midge

1. Not all Christians are 'fundamentalists'. They are a *tiny* minority
2. Tearfund and Traidcraft are two campaigning Christian organisations that spring to mind.
3. marriage/ civil partnerships is in fact a matter for the state. Only Holy Matrimony is a consideration of the Church. Please don't derail a thread with homosexuality (which has nothing to do with slavery).

Stephen_BostonMA

Well, I hope that they are a tiny minority, but they seem to have a lot of influence.

Also, I wasn't intending to derail the thread. Of course, homosexuality and slavery are two different things.

If the Bible actually condemned slavery, instead of passively accepting it, then perhaps we would see more collective effort among the world's 2 billion Christians in trying to eradicate the tacit slavery that still exists today. Sure, there are a lot of Christians who do a lot of good work in helping the poor. A lot of Christians in the U.S. fought to end slavery, but many fought to preserve it. And, all too often, vocal Christian groups seem primarily obsessed with things like sexuality, school prayer, evolution being taught in schools, placing a plaque of the ten commandments in public spaces, etc.

doubtingthomas

I don't see how someone can honestly accept the bible's stance on slavery. In the whole of it there is not ONE verse that condemns the practice, in fact one could say that the authors tipped their hats towards slave owners. This dilemma is compounded by the fact that during the times of the NT and the Roman Empire slavery was extremely commonplace. One would think that during those times Jesus or the disciples would have spoken out publically against the practice.
Another thing that I can't understand is how people can look at a verse like Exodus 21:20 and say that it is the inspired inerrant word of God. Here we have another example of an instance where God could have rejected slavery, but instead he gives guidelines on how to beat the slaves. All God would have had to do is command for people to release their slaves or to not acquire any in the first place.