Stephen_BostonMA

I just thought I'd share some highlights of a debate I that had with a fundamentalist on another message board.

During a political discussion, he started quoting the Bible. To see how far he would go in his literal interpretations, I pointed out that the New Testament seems to authorize slavery:
I asked if he felt that slavery was o.k. Although he claimed to be very knowledgeable about the Bible, he seemed unfamiliar with those passages.

The next day, he came back after reading up on the subject, and pretty much said that slavery in Biblical times was not as bad as it was in the United States. Then he indicated that overall, passages about slavery had to do with everyone being expected by God to obey the law, and submit to people of authority. He pointed out other passages that instructed masters not to treat their slaves with cruelty.

Here are some quotes from the most recent exchange: That sure says a lot, doesn't it?

Vinnie

Fundamentalist theists are a virus that needs to be destroyed.

Vinnie

Vinnie

And somebody send this to Winace!!!

Fundibots say the darndest things....

Madkins007

I've seen a lot of debates on slavery and the Bible, and I have been wondering a few things...

1. How did people end up in slavery in Biblical times compared or contrasted to, say, the Civil War period?

2. Is our abhorrence of slavery a learned response? Is it the product of the industrial revolution and/or other factors (more leisure time, free spending money, etc.)? It sometimes seems as if only some countries/societies can 'afford' to be anti-slavery (or pro-environment, pro-women's rights, anti-child labor, etc.) I ask this because it seems to be a relatively recent development that seems to have most hold in the richer countries in the world.

3. IS slavery in the Bible (Roman period, whatever) the same thing as slavery was in Colonial days? I have heard that Roman slave could buy their freedom, and many other 'arguments' that seem to try to seperate these two things. Is there any validity in that?

shunyadragon

. . . or maybe exorcised on the full moon.

funinspace

Right it was really different. Here is a great example of the Hebrew's view of slavery:
Ex 21:20 And if a man strikes his servant or his female servant with a rod so that he or she dies as a result of the blow, he will surely be punished. 21:21 However, if the injured servant survives one or two days, the owner will not be punished, for he has suffered the loss.

I think that makes it quite clear how different it was.

DK

Vorkosigan

Here is my dissection of that nonsense claim about slavery in ancient times:

http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...c&f=6&t=000718

Stephen_BostonMA

Thank you! That's a great reference tool.

You had included a link on there to some information written by Professor John (Bert) Lott at Vassar college. It appears to be broken, so I searched the Vassar site, and got some good search results:

http://www.google.com/u/vchome?q=slavery%20roman

diana

Of course, this is just a red herring. The question still remains, doesn't it, whether he condones slavery or not? (After reading the exchange, I'm ... frightened and saddened how far people will go against what they sense is right to justify their faith.)

Also, I've not yet seen any actual materials supporting that defense, so I suspect right away that it's bullshit. (I'll read Vork's dissection with pleasure, I imagine.)

Patently untrue and besides, another red herring. The bible still condones slavery, no matter what he'd prefer to believe the verses are "about."

Yep, but if they aren't, they are to remain faithful and obedient even to "perverse" masters. (Just like women married to men who beat them, now that I think about it. The men are commanded to treat their wives right, but women are expected to remain faithful and obedient even if her husband is "perverse.")

d

cloudyphiz

The dissection was great, but even better was your treatment of tercel's response. "I personally find Paul's commands to be above reproach." I shudder to think that any sane person could actually believe that in this day and age (and what's more to admit it in public).

-Gary