Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JoeWallack · 05-11-2008, 05:44 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdeman, Early Christianity, 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received.

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_3

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of the Gospel, Enduring Affliction

Contrast = Affliction and Comfort

Irony = Deliverers of Faith are comforted in their Affliction and given Faith by those they gave Faith to.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_4

Fourth paragraph:

Theme = Reward of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and The Gentiles

Irony =

Believers instructed to be Passionate about their lack of Passion

Those that fall asleep/die first will rise/live before those who have not fallen asleep/died.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_5

Fifth paragraph:

Theme = Timing of the Reward

Contrast = Believers and Non-Believers

Irony =

Quote:

5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that aught be written unto you.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:

5:5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

5:6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.

5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night: and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.

5:8 But let us, since we are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

5:9 For God appointed us not into wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Non-believers think you are safe in your home but they are not and believers think you are not safe in your home but they are.

Thus we have some as that great 21st century philosopher, Larry David, would say, "pre-tty good" Irony in the fifth paragraph of 1 Thessalonians

Joseph

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-12-2008, 07:35 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdeman, Early Christianity, 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

JW:
I have already demonstrated Ad Nazorean that "Mark's" General style of Ironic Contrast is paralleled to Paul's general style of Ironic Contrast. Now let's look for Specific parallels within the Ironic Contrast. The Christian Bible has placed Paul's writings after the Gospel narrative with the implication that Paul is commenting on the Gospel narratives. But consider the Paulsibility that the literary relationship is backwards and that the original Gospel narrative, "Mark", used Paul as a primary source while Paul did not use "Mark" as a source because it and the story it tells did not exist at the time Paul wrote. "Mark" than could be a Prequelle to Paul, trying to explain how things got into position before Paul wrote. Specifically, why no one who knew Jesus understood him and why someone who did not know Jesus, Paul, had to understand Jesus through Revelation.

The first paragraph of 1 Thessalonians has little Contrast just as the beginning of "Mark" has little contrast. But the first paragraph has the following Irony:

Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver

Can we find this Irony in "Mark" and if so how important is it to "Mark"?

I have Faith that this specific irony is not explicit in "Mark" but it is Implicit.

Note that in "Mark" the officially designated Deliverers of the Gospel:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_3

Quote:

3:13 And he goeth up into the mountain, and calleth unto him whom he himself would; and they went unto him.

3:14 And he appointed twelve, that they might be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

3:15 and to have authority to cast out demons:

all fail Jesus by narrative and by the end literally no one is saying anything about Jesus:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_16

Quote:

16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, He goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.

16:8 And they went out, and fled from the tomb; for trembling and astonishment had come upon them: and they said nothing to any one; for they were afraid.

Paul asserts that the Gospel no longer needs to be heard from the Deliverers of the Gospel:

Quote:

1:8 For from you hath sounded forth the word of the Lord, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but in every place your faith to God-ward is gone forth; so that we need not to speak anything.

Instead, Paul asserts that the written instruction of the Gospel, 1 Thessalonians itself, be read to everyone:

Quote:

5:27 I adjure you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the brethren.

This is also the inescapable conclusion of "Mark". The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

So in summary, the irony of the first paragraph of 1 Thessalonians, that Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver, is not Explicitly stated in "Mark" which weakens the parallel, but not only is Implicitly present, but is one of the most important Assertians of "Mark".

Joseph

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-13-2008, 07:29 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdeman, Early Christianity, 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received..

JW:
The Parallel for the Theme of the second paragraph of 1 Thessalonians, Reception of the Gospel, is the Jesus' baptism scene in "Mark":

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_1

Quote:

1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in the Jordan.

1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens rent asunder, and the Spirit as a dove descending upon him:

1:11 And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased.

1:12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.

1:13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; And he was with the wild beasts; And the angels ministered unto him.

Inventory of parallels to 1 Thessalonians:

1) "Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee"

Verses

2:2 "but having suffered before and been shamefully treated, as ye know, at Philippi, we waxed bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God in much conflict."

Jesus' origin is geographical just as Paul's was. Neither ever mentions a biological father (was that Paul's great sin?).

2) "the Spirit" (τὸ πνεῦμα)

Verses

1:5 "the spirit" (ἐν πνεύματι)

God's Spirit comes to Jesus/Thessalonians with the Gospel of God

3) "Thou art my beloved Son"

Verses

2:11 "as ye know how we [dealt with] each one of you, as a father with his own children, exhorting you, and encouraging [you], and testifying,"

God/Paul are like a Father.

4) "well pleased" (εὐδόκησα)

Verses

"well pleased" (εὐδοκοῦμεν)

Direct hit. God/Paul well pleased with the Reception.

5) "And a voice came out of the heavens, Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased."

Verses

2:5 "For neither at any time were we found using words of flattery, as ye know, nor a cloak of covetousness, God is witness;"

God is the witness (not men).

6) "tempted (πειραζόμενος) of Satan"

Verses

2:18 "Satan hindered us"

3:5 "the tempter had tempted (ἐπείρασεν) you"

JW:
I think all these parallels here indicate that "Mark's" primary source for his Jesus baptism story was 1 Thessalonians even though it has echoes of the Jewish Bible and that for "Mark" Paul was a superior source for his narrative than the Jewish Bible. "Mark's" source was Paul's Interpretation of the Jewish Bible.

Joseph

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-17-2008, 12:18 PM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdemann, Early Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk), 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Not necessarily ironic but the parallel scene is Jesus' baptism

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction

Contrast = Affliction and Comfort

Irony = Deliverers of Faith are comforted in their Affliction and given Faith by those they gave Faith to.

The Parallel for the Theme of the third paragraph of 1 Thessalonians, the Message of Enduring in Affliction, of the Gospel, is the Prophet Without Honor in his own Hometown scene in "Mark":

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_6

Quote:

6:1 And he went out from thence; and he cometh into his own country; and his disciples follow him.

6:2 And when the sabbath was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, Whence hath this man these things? and, What is the wisdom that is given unto this man, and [what mean] such mighty works wrought by his hands?

6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him.

6:4 And Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief.

The parallel to 1 Thessalonians here is a Complimentary negative statement. Jesus is unable to comfort Affliction because his audience lacks Faith.

Joseph

FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-18-2008, 06:45 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdemann, Early Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk), 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Not necessarily ironic but the parallel scene is Jesus' baptism

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction

Contrast = Affliction and Comfort

Irony = Deliverers of Faith are comforted in their Affliction and given Faith by those they gave Faith to.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Jesus is unable to comfort Affliction because his audience lacks Faith.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_4

Fourth paragraph:

Theme = Reward of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and The Gentiles

Irony = Believers instructed to be Passionate about their lack of Passion

Those that fall asleep/die first will rise/live before those who have not fallen asleep/died.

A Parallel for the Irony of the fourth paragraph of 1 Thessalonians is the Passion:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_14

Quote:

60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_15

Quote:

15:4 And Pilate again asked him, saying, Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they accuse thee of.

15:5 But Jesus no more answered anything; insomuch that Pilate marvelled.

Jesus is passionate about his lack of passion during his Passion

Joseph

PASSION Created by ELIZA BETH ANONYMOUSE was introduced in ?AD (even
though the "AD" designation is long after the supposed AD event).
This fine smell contains jewsmine, beggaming the question, ruse and
is accented with tuberrosery, vanilly ice and mush making PASSION
perfect for formal abuse.

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-21-2008, 07:07 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdemann, Early Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk), 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Not necessarily ironic but the parallel scene is Jesus' baptism

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction

Contrast = Affliction and Comfort

Irony = Deliverers of Faith are comforted in their Affliction and given Faith by those they gave Faith to.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Jesus is unable to comfort Affliction because his audience lacks Faith.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_4

Fourth paragraph:

Theme = Reward of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and The Gentiles

Irony =

1) Believers instructed to be Passionate about their lack of Passion

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Jesus is passionate about his lack of passion during his Passion

2) Those that fall asleep/die first will rise/live before those who have not fallen asleep/died.

A Parallel for this Irony from the fourth paragraph of 1 Thessalonians is the Synagogue Ruler Daughter story:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_4

Quote:

4:13 But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope.

4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise (ἀναστήσονται) first;

Verses:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_5

Quote:

5:38 And they come to the house of the ruler of the synagogue; and he beholdeth a tumult, and [many] weeping and wailing greatly.

5:39 And when he was entered in, he saith unto them, Why make ye a tumult, and weep? the child is not dead, but sleepeth.

5:40 And they laughed him to scorn. But he, having put them all forth, taketh the father of the child and her mother and them that were with him, and goeth in where the child was.

5:41 And taking the child by the hand, he saith unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, Arise.

5:42 And straightway the damsel rose up (ἀνέστη), and walked; for she was twelve years old. And they were amazed straightway with a great amazement.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Girl who "falls asleep" first rises before those who have not fallen asleep/died, literally (Pillars).

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-23-2008, 07:31 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Quote:

3. Literary form

May not stand on its own but can complement other similarities. Healings of paralytics by Peter (Acts 3:1-10) and Paul (14:8-10) share a common literary form — both contain information about the place, action of the man, word of healing, gesture of healing, immediate occurrence of healing, demonstration of healing, and effect on the crowd (from Lüdemann, Early Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk), 53).

Sometimes better to speak of distinct literary motifs in common: example, the double visions in each of the conversions of Saul (9:1-19) and Peter (10:1-48).

What is distinctly Markan style is the Contrast. In 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/~errancyw/ind...hessalonians_1

We have the following contrasts:

The Beginning shows no contrast within itself but note that the beginning of "Mark" shows little contrast:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Mark_1

The second paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_2

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and "The Jews":

The third paragraph:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Shows a strong contrast between Affliction and Comfort, both caused by Faith.

The fourth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_4

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and The Gentiles.

The fifth paragraph:

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/1_Thessalonians_5

Shows a strong contrast between Believers and Non-Believers.

Thus we have nice parallels here for Contrasting Style between 1 Thessalonians and "Mark".

"Contrast" is a general literary style though. A more specific style of Contrast is Irony. A general observation is often the Copyist will increase a style to emphasize it. Let's see if there is Irony in 1 Thessalonians and to what extent:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Contrast = Little

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel no longer need to Deliver.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = The original Deliverers of the Gospel are no longer speaking of the Gospel. The Gospel than has to be spread by reading "Mark" itself.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_2

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and "The Jews"

Irony = Deliverers of the Gospel do not please the Receivers but are pleased to have the Gospel received.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Not necessarily ironic but the parallel scene is Jesus' baptism

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_3

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction

Contrast = Affliction and Comfort

Irony = Deliverers of Faith are comforted in their Affliction and given Faith by those they gave Faith to.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Jesus is unable to comfort Affliction because his audience lacks Faith.

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_4

Fourth paragraph:

Theme = Reward of the Gospel

Contrast = Believers and The Gentiles

Irony =

1) Believers instructed to be Passionate about their lack of Passion

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Jesus is passionate about his lack of passion during his Passion

2) Those that fall asleep/die first will rise/live before those who have not fallen asleep/died.

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Girl who "falls asleep" first rises before those who have not fallen asleep/died, literally (Pillars).

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_5

Fifth paragraph:

Theme = Timing of the Reward

Contrast = Believers and Non-Believers

Irony = Non-believers think you are safe in your home but they are not and believers think you are not safe in your home but they are.

A Parallel for this Irony from the fifth paragraph of 1 Thessalonians is the Watch for the Lord of the House Instruction:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_5

Quote:

5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that aught be written unto you.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh (ἔρχεται) as a thief in the night.

5:3 When they are saying, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:

5:5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;

5:6 so then let us not sleep (καθεύδωμεν), as do the rest, but let us watch (γρηγορῶμεν) and be sober.

5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night: and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.

Verses:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_13

Quote:

13:32 But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

13:33 Take ye heed, watch [1] and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

13:34 [It is] as [when] a man, sojourning in another country, having left his house, and given authority to his servants, to each one his work, commanded also the porter to watch.

13:35 Watch [2] therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh (ἔρχεται), whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning;

13:36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping (καθεύδοντας).

13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch [3] (γρηγορεῖτε).

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Here "Mark" actually uses the same story but places Paul's words on Jesus' lips (where Paul said Watch for Jesus' return "Mark's" Jesus says Watch for my return).

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-24-2008, 07:50 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Over at Neal Godfree's superior Vridar:

Clark’s criteria for valid parallels

Neal discusses criteria for valid parallels:

Quote:

1. Similarity in content

Too vague to stand on its own as a criterion of authorial intention for passages to be read in parallel. May complement other similarities.

I have identified the following major Themes of 1 Thessalonians:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

First paragraph:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel

Second paragraph:

Theme = Reception of the Gospel

Third paragraph:

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction

Fourth paragraph:

Theme = Reward of the Gospel

Fifth paragraph:

Theme = Timing of the Reward

Are these Themes present in "Mark"?:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Reception of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction = Yes

Theme = Reward of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Timing of the Reward = Yes

Are these major Themes in "Mark"?:

Theme = Delivery of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Reception of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Message of Enduring in Affliction = Yes

Theme = Reward of the Gospel = Yes

Theme = Timing of the Reward = Yes

Thus we have some as that great 21st century philosopher, Larry David, would say, "pre-tty good" Parallels of Content between "Mark" and 1 Thessalonians.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack · 05-25-2008, 05:42 AM

You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth

JW:
Criteria:

Over at Neal Godfree's superior Vridar:

Clark’s criteria for valid parallels

Neal discusses criteria for valid parallels:

Quote:

4. Sequence

The more extensive a sequence is the stronger it is as an indicator of intentional parallelism. Sequences may not always be in the same strict order, however.

The sequence of 1 Thessalonians as a whole is:

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?tit...hessalonians_1

1) Delivery of the Gospel

2) Reception of the Gospel

3) Message of Enduring in Affliction

4) Reward of the Gospel

5) Timing of the Reward

The related sequence of "Mark":

http://errancywiki.com/index.php?title=Mark_1

1) Delivery of the Gospel

Chapters 1 and 3

2) Reception of the Gospel

Chapters 6 and 7

3) Message of Enduring in Affliction

Chapters 8 and 9

4) Reward of the Gospel

Chapter 13

5) Timing of the Reward

Chapter 13, after 4)

Thus the sequence of "Mark" as to major themes parallels the sequence of major themes of 1 Thessalonians reMarkably well.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

Solo · 05-25-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWallack

Quote:

13:32 But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

13:33 Take ye heed, watch [1] and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

13:34 [It is] as [when] a man, sojourning in another country, having left his house, and given authority to his servants, to each one his work, commanded also the porter to watch.

13:35 Watch [2] therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh (ἔρχεται), whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning;

13:36 lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping (καθεύδοντας).

13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch [3] (γρηγορεῖτε).

Ironic Parallel in "Mark" = Here "Mark" actually uses the same story but places Paul's words on Jesus' lips (where Paul said Watch for Jesus' return "Mark's" Jesus says Watch for my return).

No irony intended here, simply a metaphorical transposition. The irony is in the internal Markan re-referencing of this pericope later in Gethsemane.

Here:

Quote:

14:33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled.

14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch. (γρηγορειτε) ”

14:35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.

14:36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

14:37 Then he returned (ερχεται) to his disciples and found them sleeping(καθευδοντας). “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour?

Jiri

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