Andykiwi

"...whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:18

What does this mean?
Where did the idea originate? (Did the idea exist before the Bible?)
Who does it apply to?

I take it as metaphor and can see it applying to anyone in authority in the world - not just "The Church".
It seems to mean that those in authority get to say what is right and wrong - what is against the rules/law.

mountainman

WIKI on Binding and loosing

I guess in groups it might have been applied to "Tribal Law" - what is forbidded and what is permitted - this often defining the tribe.

OTOH in terms of applying it to oneself or one's psychology, in some form of self-governing sense, it may effectively be the other side of the quote "Judge not lest ye be judged", since the binding and loosing appears to describe judgement (for and against, forbid and allow, etc).

Just 2c worth AndyK1W1 on the first part "binding and loosing". Heaven and earth are extra considerations. Although the WIKI article states the phrase is Jewish, I wonder if there was any other similar precedent outside of Judaism for the phrase - or a similar phrase - a Greek or Platonic equivalent of the term "binding and loosing"? I dont know of one.

Andykiwi

Good info, mountainman. I think the "heaven" references are supposed to mean that "God approves it".
I think it applies to other authorities, like the government of the country too...
Romans 13:1-7 is one passage that shows respect (and "God's approval") to the law of the land.

I am interested in the self-government idea too... Somewhere the Bible says "Whatever is not of faith is sin.", which means that you should always try to do what you believe is right, I think. ...or "Believe in what you choose to do."

gurugeorge

I suspect it's to do with magic:-

"For binding knots was a common homeopathic device, and even served as a description of magic, which, in the Talmud, was said to consist of "binding and loosing."

See also here.

Andykiwi

Thanks, gurugeorge. That second link (from Jewish Encyclopedia) seems very clear and helpful to understanding the subject.

The first one (about magic) is interesting, and no doubt some people try that way, but I don't think the New Testament writers were proposing that method - it's not necessary, IMO.

Horatio Parker

It doesn't sound Platonic to me. It seems to imply that any earth law created by the church will also apply to heaven. That's the opposite of Platonic.

I would guess it has it's origins in the temple state, where the king is chosen by God.

It could be a metaphor similar to the philosopher-king, but as I say, cause and effect seem reversed.

gurugeorge

I disagree - consider that the only glimpse we have of what Paul's congregation did on a day to day basis involves what we would nowadays call "occult" practices (knowing spirits, for example), and that Paul's inspiration was itself at least partly visionary. Also consider the earliest Christian iconography discovered, with rather unfamilar symbolism reminiscent of pagan magic. I suspect early Christianity may have been a bit more "New Agey" and more folk-magic-ey than we think, but it gradually got "tamed" on account of the requirement to streamline doctrine (people couldn't be allowed to keep coming up with inspired "gospels", for example).

Also, I'm strongly influenced by Walter Bauer's idea that "heresy" was the multifaceted majority form of Christianity in the earliest days, and that "orthodoxy" was the "unified story" latecomer that gradually squeezed it out (as "heretic", "gnostic", etc. - and it's blindingly obvious that gnosticism is steeped in magic)