Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 01-30-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Indisputable prophecies would never convince anyone.

Rubbish. They convince True Believers. Just have a look at the hoops you've been jumping through to keep the Tyre failed prophecy looking to you fulfilled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Your counterpart, "Doubting Tomas", didn't believe despite seeing many miracles.

Doubting Thomas is more leverage on True Believers.

spin

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Indisputable prophecies would never convince anyone.

Would never convince anyone of what, that God has good character? If so, you are right because power does not have anything to do with character.

If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kingdom instead of an earthly kingdom which Micah 5:2 indicates, and that the messiah would heal sick people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become governor of Palestine, are you going to tell us that not even one more Jew would have become a follower of Jesus?

If indisputable prophecies would never convince anyone, why are you discussing prophecy?

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Indisputable prophecies would never convince anyone.

That is obviously false since Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce convinced thousands if not millions of people with disputable prophecies.

Cege · 01-30-2008, 06:49 PM

arnoldo, would you be so kind as to reveal your sources for what you have defended as your adopted beliefs? Or have your arrived at your conclusions about biblical prophecy as a result of your own study?

I ask, as a Christian, who sees many different and divurgent interpretations from various Christian "scholars" put forth for contemporary believers to try and discern. IOW, what/who do you base your beliefs on?

arnoldo · 01-30-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cege

arnoldo, would you be so kind as to reveal your sources for what you have defended as your adopted beliefs? Or have your arrived at your conclusions about biblical prophecy as a result of your own study?

I ask, as a Christian, who sees many different and divurgent interpretations from various Christian "scholars" put forth for contemporary believers to try and discern. IOW, what/who do you base your beliefs on?

Sorry to get off topic, I will respond to Johnny S. question in reference to prophecy in the appropriate thread. In any event my argument has been of a historical nature not religious. Tyre (the island) = Tyre (mainland)

http://www.mediterranean-geoarchaeol...AGES/TYR07.pdf

Sheshonq · 01-30-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

No he didn't.

God is responsible for all disputes regarding prophecies since he could easily have made many indisputable prophecies. The God of the Bible is immoral.

Indisputable prophecies would never convince anyone.

Of course they would. That's the definition of "indisputable."

Quote:

Your counterpart, "Doubting Tomas", didn't believe despite seeing many miracles.

Not only are you unfamiliar with the Old Testament; apparently you don't know much about the New Testament either. According to the gospels, the disciples all believed - before the crucifixion. Then afterwards, none believed until some of them saw the risen Christ.

What Thomas refused to believe were the hearsay reports. He saw no miracles. Once he did see a miracle - i.e., the risen Christ - he did believe.

Quote:

JOH 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
JOH 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
JOH 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
JOH 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
JOH 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
JOH 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I'm just sitting his chuckling at how much better informed skeptics are about Christianity, than so-called Christians themselves.

makerowner · 01-30-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cege

arnoldo, would you be so kind as to reveal your sources for what you have defended as your adopted beliefs? Or have your arrived at your conclusions about biblical prophecy as a result of your own study?

I ask, as a Christian, who sees many different and divurgent interpretations from various Christian "scholars" put forth for contemporary believers to try and discern. IOW, what/who do you base your beliefs on?

Sorry to get off topic, I will respond to Johnny S. question in reference to prophecy in the appropriate thread. In any event my argument has been of a historical nature not religious. Tyre (the island) = Tyre (mainland)

http://www.mediterranean-geoarchaeol...AGES/TYR07.pdf

Do you even read the shit you post? This is the first sentence of the document: "Tyre was founded during the third millennium BC on an
easily defendable offshore island".

Sheshonq · 01-30-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Sorry to get off topic, I will respond to Johnny S. question in reference to prophecy in the appropriate thread. In any event my argument has been of a historical nature not religious.

But in this post over here, you tried to tell us that your argument was religious, not historical.

Seems like you'll say anything that you think will keep you from being nailed to the wall.

Quote:

Tyre (the island) = Tyre (mainland)

Uh, no. The city of Tyre was on the island.

Quote:

http://www.mediterranean-geoarchaeol...AGES/TYR07.pdf

Which does not supprt your position - as usual. The very first sentence of the Introduction says:

Tyre was founded during the third millennium BC on an easily defendable offshore island

:rolling:

makerowner · 01-30-2008, 07:26 PM

And, arnoldo, if you had gotten all the way to page 2, you would have read this paragraph:

Quote:

Tyre bears witness to significant coastal modifications since 6000 BP. These are attributed to three complementary dynamics: (1) important coastal artificialisation during the Hellenistic period, with the construction of Alexander the Great’s causeway (Katzenstein, 1997; Marriner et al., 2007); (2) the location of the site at the distal margin of the Litani delta, the Lebanon’s largest fluvial system and a major source of sediment at the Holocene timescale (Abd-el-Al, 1948; Marriner, 2007; Soffer, 1994); and (3) rapid relative sea-level changes, attributed to a tectonic subsidence of the Tyrian horst by w3 m since late Roman times (Morhange et al., 2006).

Notice how there's no mention of Nebuchadrezzar casting anything into the water.
Do you just post anything with the word Tyre in it in the hopes that it might support your lost cause?

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Sorry to get off topic, I will respond to Johnny Skeptic's question in reference to prophecy in the appropriate thread.

I bet that you won't.

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01-30-2008, 06:49 PM	#84
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	arnoldo, would you be so kind as to reveal your sources for what you have defended as your adopted beliefs? Or have your arrived at your conclusions about biblical prophecy as a result of your own study? I ask, as a Christian, who sees many different and divurgent interpretations from various Christian "scholars" put forth for contemporary believers to try and discern. IOW, what/who do you base your beliefs on?

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