Steven Carr

Was Jesus really an itinerant preacher with a fixed number of 12 disciples wandering around with him?

What did they do all day?

Has there ever been an itinerant preacher who had a fixed number of disciples accompanying him?

Nathan Poe

If he was, how home none of the Gospels can agree on their names?

Steven Carr

Were some voted off by the public and then replaced with new ones?

The idea that Jesus was accompanied by 12 (not 11 or 13) disciples strikes me as ridiculous.

Is there a precedent?

Solo

The idea of convert the Twelve into twelve disciples was Matthew's. He sneaks in the idea at 10:11 (And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity). In Mark, Twelve (without an article) are called at 3:14. The absence of the definite article signifies this was a body making a debut in the narrative. Mark first mentions Jesus' disciples in 2:15, stating that there were many who followed him.

Best,
Jiri

Bronzeage

Foole: The reason why the seven Starres[planets] are no mo then seven, is a pretty reason.
Lear: Because they are not eight.
Foole: Yes indeed, thou would'st make a good Foole.

DCHindley

I would think that

1) These 12 were the formally appointed leaders of Jesus'

a) shadow government on the run, or
b) an organized association of followers, like a private association.

2) 12 is a symbolic number (it represented a collected body of diciples from the "12 tribes") and the actual number of disciples was much larger and fluctuated with time.

DCH

mountainman

I think the author of "The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles" thought the same. (NHC 6.1)


Before the Constantine Bible published Jesus, and before Church History had been written, in the 3rd century Plotinus, according to his student Porphyry, had twelve disciples and taught Plato's Holy trinity from the canonical books of Plato, preserved by the Apostolic succession of Platonists. The supreme deity found in the philosophy, metaphysics and books of Plato was called by some "God", by others "The All" and by others "The Good" - or in the Greek CHRESTOS. Go figure.

andrewcriddle

According to the Gospels the 12 apostles were the core of a wider group that sometimes travelled with Jesus. According to Luke 8:1-3 this wider group included women.

Andrew Criddle

Nathan Poe

Actually, we have to make a distinction between Jesus' apostles and "the twelve." Paul considered himself an apostle, but clearly was never one of the twelve.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Steven,

This makes me wonder about the financial structure of the corporation. Did the disciples beg and give money to Jesus or did Jesus make money by giving speeches, collecting money and giving it to his disciples. Perhaps his disciples were all young and their fathers were still giving them money.

Even in modern Superhero stories, the superhero has to have a way of earning money - Superman - reporter, Batman - inheritance, Spiderman - photographer for a while etc.

I wonder how people would have imagined the economic arrangements.

Perhaps Jesus' father owned a successful carpentry shop and was making tons of money. Maybe they were living off of the fishing business of the disciples. Perhaps Jesus just used magic and found gold coins in fish. Perhaps the idea that he hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors was meant to suggest that he was a young punk making his money from pimping and providing the muscle to force poor people to come up with their taxes?

Warmly,

Jay Raskin