seebs

So, as is often the case with us wishy-washy liberal folks, my belief system certainly allows for questions about what the Bible really is, who wrote it, who collected which bits, and so on; similarly, I am quite open to questions about interpretation.

As is also fairly common, I'm a relatively naive reader, with only the tiniest smattering of familiarity with Hebrew and Greek (in both of which I can recognize a handful of words). So far as I'm concerned, Q was John de Lancie's first really famous TV role.

Anyway, Toto said something which struck me as interesting, which is, he made a comment on what a passage means that happens to connect well with my casual inquiries and conversations with other Christians... And reminded me that there's a lot of material to be looked at here, and probably a lot of things that might help one try to interpret the Bible more usefully.

The only remotely serious studies I've done have been on the endless homosexuality debates, from which I learned a couple of Hebrew words, one Greek word that no one can agree on the meaning of, and that most people are too emotionally involved to just read the book.

Anyone got useful suggestions and whatnot for someone just starting to dabble a bit in more serious analysis? A friend of mine has been mentioning things like "The Cross That Spoke", and on recommendations from someone else, I picked up Robert Alter's recent translation The Five Books of Moses.

For those of you who are serious scholars, I must warn you that I am a poster child for ADD, and I often get a bit flighty when confronted with particularly heavy reading. I eventually make it through, generally, but I get swamped easily.

Anyway, hi! I know this forum has a substantially different tone and readership than much of the rest of IIDB, so I'll just start reading now.

hum

Seebs...

Just read "The Bible Unearthed" by Finkelstein & Silberman.

That would be an O.K. start for a novice to get a bit of a grip the current state of scholarship of the O.T. re. historicity ( definately include myself in the novice description !!)

Hang around here for a while and you will certainly expand your horizons.....problem is most folks here know waaaaay too much stuff to be healthy. You might notice my low post count.... good reason for that ! ..... not many times I could add ANY comment of insight....better to lurk and learn.

hum

youngalexander

Amen

Dean Anderson

I would say that Friedman's Who Wrote The Bible? would be a better introduction. Whilst Finkelstein's book is excellent (and a good second book), Friedman is more instantly readable.

Of course, these are both books about the DH and the Torah, with Friedman concentrating on the textual evidence and Finkelstein concentrating on the archaeological evidence.


If you want a New Testament book that is both readable and will challenge your views, I would highly recommend Earl Doherty's The Jesus Puzzle where he very eloquently sets out the case for a mythical Jesus.

Whether or not you agree with his conclusions, you will learn a lot about the writing of the NT on the way.

I am currently reading Robert M. Price's The Incredible Shrinking Son Of Man, and it is a fascinating deconstruction of the gospel texts, showing their midrashic origins well. I wouldn't recommend it for a casual reader, though, since you need to sit down with a Bible in one hand and the book in the other cross-referencing as you go. It's definitely a serious book, rather than a populist one.

Of course, for a brief introduction, there are the sublimely excellent www.earlychristianwritings.com and www.earlyjewishwritings.com both maintained by Peter Kirby.

Other than that, I would advise doing what I did - and asking stupid questions here in BC&H...

Dean Anderson

And another thing...

Friedman's The Bible With Sources Revealed is an excellent Torah resource (it being a English translation of the Torah with the different authors and parts that make it up picked out in different fonts) and provides a very solid summary of the DH argument as its introduction.

And don't bother with Freke and Gandy's The Jesus Mysteries - they make a vaguely plausible hypothetical argument that the original Christian church was a branch of the Eleusian Mystery Cult, but take liberties with the evidence claiming much more support for their argument than actually exists.

Toto

Actually, I think that seebs might get a lot out of Freke and Gandy's Jesus Mysteries. Just ignore (or take with many grains of salt) the chapter on the parallels between Jesus and the dying and rising gods, which is not essential to their argument, and realize that they often overstate their case, and you can't necessarily rely on them as an authority - but they discuss some ideas that you might be interested in.

For a more scholarly treatment, Who Wrote the New Testament, the Making of the Christian Myth by Burton Mack is good.

seebs

I'm coming to this from a lot of exposure to literalist inerrantism, so I'm familiar with the process of weeding through overclaims looking for good points.

gregor

Seebs

While I think it's a long labor, it's good to start with the shorter more superficial works and then work up to the more acedemic. And you might focus on the NT or the OT exclusively for a while.

Let's take the NT, with the above theme of simple to complex

I'd start with Randall Helms "Who Wrote the Gospels" - shorter and very readable. It introduces alot of issues to be discussed by others

Then I'd move to Burton Mack. Is there overlap between Mack and Helms? Yes, but Mack is a more detailed look at the NT, and what you recall from Helms will help.

Then it's time to move to the controversies. I'd read Bart Ehrman's Lost Christianities and get a sense of what competing faiths were around in 50 - 200 CE. A very readable book.

Then I think I'd graduate to Crossan, The Birth of Christianity. This book talks about the origins and reliability of the Jesus stories. This is now getting into a more scholarly realm where knowledge of some author's names and theories will help. Even more deeper might be Helmut Koester's History of the New Testament.

Then I'd move on to the Jesus controversies: Price's Incredible Shrinking Son (more critical) and Meier, A Marginal Jew (more orthodox). Then you can appreciate the Doherty's challenge to historicity better.

Just thoughts

Peter Kirby

Books that I would avoid (at least starting out with) from the above:

Who Wrote the Gospels? -- Not a well-rounded examination.
The Birth of Christianity -- low usefulness/difficulty ratio

The best advice I've heard for the budding scholar is to read the "Big Books", the important and monolithic volumes from which a thousand little books derive.

For the casual reader, however, a different strategy is advised. Read the best of the 'little books'.

My father (a financial planner and Catholic) is currently working through A Historical Introduction to the New Testament by Bart Ehrman. This is a good alternative to some of the more technical 'Introductions', and it is by a top-notch scholar.

I submit that it is essential to understand the background of the times to read the New Testament historically. So I also suggest:

Palestine in the Time of Jesus
by K. C. Hanson and Douglas E. Oakman

Hanson and Oakman are easy to read.

To learn about all the fuss with the synoptic problem and other gospel issues, clearly explained, see:

Studying the Synoptic Gospels
by Margaret Davies, E. P. Sanders

Now, when it comes to HJ, my favorite volume is:

Jesus Remembered: Christianity in the Making
by James D. G. Dunn

It amply repays study. But be warned that this is a 'big book' (1000 pages).

More recommendations can be found here:

http://www.eblaforum.org/library/bcah/ntreference.html

Perhaps if you have a more narrow interest or question, I can suggest something in answer to it.

best wishes,
Peter Kirby

gregor

I certainly wouldn't recommend The Birth of Christianity as the first book to read. It is long. It is involved. It assumes you know the controversy surrounding "finding the HJ" already. TBofC fits into the following debate and should be read if you're interested in the debate around the Jesus Seminar

1. Jesus Seminar work - Ref: Funk; This produces items like:

2. The Historical Jesus by Crossan. In response from the orthodox you get:

3. NT Wright, Meier, and Koester, who push back; which generates

4. Crossan's dispute of their attack on the Seminar through TBofC.