Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following Scriptures:

JAM 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith [alone] save him? [The implication is no.]

JAM 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

JAM 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

JAM 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

JAM 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

JAM 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

JAM 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

JAM 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

In Merriam Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary, one definition of the word “justify� is as follows:

“Archaic: to administer justice to. Archaic: Absolve. Judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation.�

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church got it right this time.

CJD

If only Luther had Webster's.

Seriously, though. The magisterial Reformers typically did not deny that salvation = faith + works; what they denied was that justification = faith + works (of merit). They affirmed that salvation = justification + sanctification.

For most of the early Reformers, faith/faithfulness were different sides of the same coin. Together, they both led to salvation.

CJD

Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following Scriptures:

JAM 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith [alone] save him? [The implication is no.]

JAM 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

JAM 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

JAM 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

JAM 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

JAM 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

JAM 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

JAM 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

MAT 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

REV 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

How well off will the Christians be who have done the least amount of good works? Would not the worst case scenario be much better than great wealth and comfort in this life? If so, does that not reduce the incentive that some Christians have to do a lot of good works? Since Revelation 21:4 says that there will be no more sorrow, does that not imply that Christians who did not do a lot of good works will not be sorry that they had not done more good works?

In Merriam Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary, one definition of the word “justify� is as follows:

“Archaic: to administer justice to. Archaic: Absolve. Judge, regard, or treat as righteous and worthy of salvation.�

It seems to me that the Roman Catholic Church got it right this time.

martini

out of curiosity, are you saying "the author of James..." or are you assuming that the apostle wrote it in order to critique it and it's relevance to Xian doctrine?

thanks,


mike

Johnny Skeptic

Since the author of James is not around today, it is impossible to know with certainty what he meant, although it seems clear to me what he meant. If the Bible is actually the word of God, it should have been written clearly so all generations of Christians could understand it, which of course was not the case. I hope that some readers comment on what I said about the incentive that Christians have to to good works. If there won't be any sorrow in heaven, then Christians who didn't do very many goods works will not be sorry that they didn't do more good works. Hence, why should Christians do lots of good works?

martini

i concur, but i should have asked if you felt that James is pseudepigraphical or if you are accepting the authenticity in order to critique it against other Xian doctrine. i have seen arguments for either so i wanted to know whether you presuppose authenticity.
ah... a sort of religious welfare state where it does not pay to work any harder or, in this case, perform more good works. hmmm. so one good work is the equivalent of a thousand good works, essentially. you have the golden ticket so why do more than necessary. i never did well in politics, but is it not like communism in that sense?

Johnny Skeptic

What I want to know is how Christians interpret what I posted.

It definitely is an interesting issue. Come on Christians, please let us skeptics know how you feel about these issues.

Chili

Faith and good works are pitted against each other in this context.

To do good works in the name of religion becomes a liability and the work of hypocrites. If we are going to expose the inner sanctum of man there better not be any religion left or there would be temples in the new Jerusalem. That is, if we cannot do good works for the sake of goodness towards our fellow man we do not belong in heaven and will never get there. Religion becomes the negative stand (antagonist) in the final battle when the real man steps forward.

Yes, good works and faith but good works at the cost of faith.

Zeichman

I'm not sure you all know this, but Luther certainly knew James, Hebrews, Revelation and the other JBW&F books, but he didn't believe that they promoted the authentic gospel. He thus placed these books in an appendix in his translation of the Bible.

CJD

Luther indeed deemed James "a right strawy epistle"! His earlier work (1522 NT) does have Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation coming at the end of the collection in the order noted previously. In his list of books they are separated by a space and given no numbers.

However, in time (at least by the 1545 edition [there were 16 or 17 editions], a year before his death) he modified his views and found more value in them, particularly Hebrews. Eventually he came to accept the canon of the medieval church. For Luther, it was always a matter deutero-canonicity — not omission.

CJD