Toto

1911 Enc. Brit."Undoubtedly genuine" sounds a bit overly confident.

andrewcriddle

Hi Roger

A version of the Acta for Justin's trial is on your website http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/A...#P6089_1353518

The Acta are found in three forms I discuss which is original at http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2...ty-of-god.html
Justin predicts denunciation by Crescens in chapter 3 of his second apology
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/A...m#P3966_758753

Andrew Criddle

aa5874

The hosts . If I knew the names of the hosts, I would tell you.

aa5874

Your post is a bit odd and is not logical.

You may not have read some of the posts on the thread.

No poster have made any claims that because Justin does not name the apostles that the memoirs of the apostles have no authors.

sschlichter

well, if Justin Martyr reads a book, quotes it, commits his life to the point of death to it without knowing where he got it then perhaps you are also able to get to a web site without typing the URL.

You might have also looked at the url of your browser and told me that infidels.org hosts it. for the sake of argument let's pretend that you know all about it. You may tell me the names of the stakeholders. You might tell me the names of employees or volunteers. You might tell me the names of the different moderators. You might tell me the name of the guy that set up the server or the person / people that design the site. collectively, I would refer to them at this point as infidels.org.

However, because it is unlikely that I care about any of that in the context of my question, I would expect you would do the same as Justin Martyr may have done and withhold those details. Plenty of others addressing the church were sharing those details to people that cared about them.

~steve

Toto

It may be time to split this and give Justin Martyr his own thread -

But we have no indication that J.M. was converted by reading the gospels. He was converted by philosophical arguments.

If he didn't name the apostles, perhaps it was because they were not important, and tracing any apostolic succession was not important to him.

eta: you can find the names of the board members of the Internet Infidels, a bona fide 501(3)(c) charity, and read the words of the founding members and other contributors in the Library. But no one deifies them AFAIK.

andrewcriddle

See also Justin's disciple Tatian http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/A...m#P1114_299739 Andrew Criddle

sschlichter

ha! good to know, I hope they do not mind being the subject of an illustration.

I am all for moving on from this topic. However, as far as his conversion. I think philosophy was less important to him than revelation.

"There existed, long before this time, certain men more ancient than all those who are esteemed philosophers, both righteous and beloved by God, who spoke by the Divine Spirit, and foretold events which would take place, and which are now taking place. They are called prophets. These alone both saw and announced the truth to men, neither reverencing nor fearing any man, not influenced by a desire for glory, but speaking those things alone which they saw and which they heard, being filled with the Holy Spirit. Their writings are still extant, and he who has read them is very much helped in his knowledge of the beginning and end of things, and of those matters which the philosopher ought to know, provided he has believed them."

aa5874

Or perhaps he just didn't know the names of the apostles who wrote the memoirs and was not even aware of persons named Mark and Luke who, incidentally, were not apostles.

These are some of the logical possibilities.

And, Justin did mention an apostle named John who prophesied in a "revelation", which would indicate to me that Justin did put some importance to giving the names of those who wrote about Jesus of the NT.


Why did NOT Justin say the "revelations of the apostles"?

Because Justin either heard, saw or was aware that there was a written revelation by an apostle named John.

I am not convinced that Justin heard, saw or was aware of one or more Gospels called Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

sschlichter

Perhaps because 'revelations' is plural and there was only one.

Out of respect for the moderator, I am done with Justin for now.

I understand, you are unconvinced.

~Steve