Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pharoah · 10-18-2005, 08:28 AM

The passage below is a popular scripture among futurists. There has been endless speculation in their circles as to the identity of the Restrainer. The Holy Spirit, the angel Michael, Satan and the AntiChrist are all bandied about as possibilities. Who do you guys think that the author had in mind?

Quote:

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Diogenes the Cynic · 10-18-2005, 10:24 AM

The answer is not known with any certainty. 2 Thessalonians was a forged letter written in deliberate imitation of Paul. It's intention was to quell growing discontent with the the fact that it was now getting on towards the end of the 1st century and Jesus had still not appeared in the clouds. 2 Thess. tried to equivocate about this increasingly embarrassing predicament by inventing a new batch of circumstances which had to be fulfilled before the J man would come back. The "man of lawlessness" (either Nero or Nero Redux) first had to be revealed and then Jesus would kick his ass. Only MOL was currently being "restrained." By what is anybody's guess but I think that 2:11 carries an implication that the author was referring to God. It sounds like the author is indicating that God is behind everything and is taking care of some business before he sends God Jr. back on the clouds.

cass256 · 10-18-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharoah

The passage below is a popular scripture among futurists. There has been endless speculation in their circles as to the identity of the Restrainer. The Holy Spirit, the angel Michael, Satan and the AntiChrist are all bandied about as possibilities. Who do you guys think that the author had in mind?

It is hard to tell. You would have to be willing to look at who was lawless. Paul was the one who taught you didn't have to keep the law. The Roman church followed Paul, and not the leaders in Jerusalem, who taught you did have to keep the law
Jesus/ Jeshua was said to have taught the law was to be followed, as well as James/jacob the pillar, called James the Just, who lead the church after the death of his brother.. according to Paul, Josephus and others..

I'd have to venture the guess that Paul was the lawless one, so he was talking about himself.

He also warned that Satan masguerades as an Angel of light, and that seems to be what he saw out of Damascus. A light.

Quote:

56 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I say it is possible that Satan/Lucifer was at work in Paul.

Diogenes the Cynic · 10-18-2005, 12:47 PM

Paul didn't write 2 Thessalonians.

Chris Weimer · 10-18-2005, 12:50 PM

Probably. One can't say with all certainty, but most likely, you're right.

Diogenes the Cynic · 10-18-2005, 01:14 PM

That's the consensus anyway.

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10-18-2005, 10:24 AM	#2
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	The answer is not known with any certainty. 2 Thessalonians was a forged letter written in deliberate imitation of Paul. It's intention was to quell growing discontent with the the fact that it was now getting on towards the end of the 1st century and Jesus had still not appeared in the clouds. 2 Thess. tried to equivocate about this increasingly embarrassing predicament by inventing a new batch of circumstances which had to be fulfilled before the J man would come back. The "man of lawlessness" (either Nero or Nero Redux) first had to be revealed and then Jesus would kick his ass. Only MOL was currently being "restrained." By what is anybody's guess but I think that 2:11 carries an implication that the author was referring to God. It sounds like the author is indicating that God is behind everything and is taking care of some business before he sends God Jr. back on the clouds.

10-18-2005, 12:47 PM	#4
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	Paul didn't write 2 Thessalonians.

10-18-2005, 12:50 PM	#5
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Probably. One can't say with all certainty, but most likely, you're right.

10-18-2005, 01:14 PM	#6
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	That's the consensus anyway.

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