SkepticBoyLee

I have a sort of general question about the people known as "The Jews" and who the hell they are.

Is there any evidence other than the Bible that a people known as the Jews ruled the land of Israel thousands of years ago.

Is there any evidence, other than the Bible, that "Jews" were "owed" Israel in the 1940s when they were given back "their" land? Did Great Britain and the US and the decision makers who decided to give Israel to the Jews, make this decision based solely upon the Bible?

Previously I took it for granted that the Jews were displaced and that they had a right to "their" land. And that at least they are an ally to the US in a volatile, fundamentalist Muslim ran area. Recently, I reasoned that it is time to stop making assumptions.

Even if "Jews" once ruled Israel a few thousand years ago they are no more "owed" their land than any other peoples who were conquered hundreds, or thousands of years ago.

Also, are caucasian European "Jews" who migrated to Israel, even genetic descendants to the original Jews in the first place?

Solitary Man

"Is there any evidence other than the Bible that a people known as the Jews ruled the land of Israel thousands of years ago."

Yes, you can read The Bible Unearthed for a primer into the issues.

No, they made the decision based on the terrible atrocities the Jews received during the holocaust and almost two millennia of persecution prior.

Never too late.

Technically, Great Britain owned the land, having conquered it, and thus had a right to do with it as they pleased.

All genetic studies show that yes, they are.

Toto

This question is similar to the one discussed in this recent thread: Is Israel's claim to the land Bible based only?

The genetic question is a bit more complex than a yes or no answer, but there is some discussion on that thread.

perfectidius

Wow! What amazing powers one gains if he has the power to conquer. "Anything they pleased." I will remember that when Native Americans ask for reparations.

DAniel

Solitary Man

Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too. The Israelis got it lucky - they both were there before the Arab conquest, and also they were given the land by the conquerers.

The Palestinians are really SOL - not only did they come after the original Israelis, but also they were conquered.

perfectidius

Well as the Jews tell the story, they also weren't there first. They stole the land from the Canaanites. So I am concerned about the Canaanites and their right to the land. Should we not explore the geneologies and see who the rightful owners of this godforsaken land were? Please. Because the Jews did own it for a couple centuries a couple of millenia ago, and this gives them "precedence" but not ABSOLUTE precedence.

Daniel

Solitary Man

Well, there's your problem right there. Perhaps you shouldn't be so worried about how who tells the story, but what really happened. The Jews weren't wandering Arameans from Ur and exiled from Egypt, they were native Canaanites. They didn't conquer Canaan. They were Canaan. Really, you do need to catch up on proper history and archaeology.

perfectidius

So what really happened? Some of the Canaanites decided to genocide their fellow Canaanites and claim that they came from egypt?

So what book would you recommend for the actual history of the Canaanites (previously and erroneosly called Jews)? And were the Canaanites that call themselves the first group there, and the only? And where the canaanites themselves the first ones there?

Daniel : )
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Toto

Read the Bible Unearthed. At the time Exodus was written, people established the legitimacy of their government by invading a country, killing and/or raping the inhabitants, and taking their land. So the story of the Conquest was written to provide the proper founding myth.

But there was no genocide that we know of.

perfectidius

Well I don't know at all what really happened. I think any claim that the Jews have a "right" the Palestine is as the previous poster said: "upon the whim of the conquering English."

So they invented the book of Joshua to fit in? I would never invent such a story about my people. That is seriously amazing. And how widely is this regarded as the plausible historical story? That the complete history of the OT is made up even in the mundane elements?

I thought at least some of it was true, that they were in Egypt, that they wandered around. Is Moses a complete fiction? And the Philistines of later on were--their long known neighbors?

The Bible unearthed, hmm? I will have to take a look.

I still think "giving" the "Jews" "their" land "back" has caused more problems than it was supposed to solve.

Daniel