FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-09-2005, 04:44 PM   #1
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: France
Posts: 169
Default Jésus vs Paul

Hello all .

I discuss with évangélique on safety in the NT and I need a study on the message of hello according to Jesus and Paul,can you help me please?
chimaira is offline  
Old 12-09-2005, 04:58 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA, Missouri
Posts: 3,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chimaira
Hello all .

I discuss with évangélique on safety in the NT and I need a study on the message of hello according to Jesus and Paul,can you help me please?
I don't understand. By "safety" and "hello" do you mean heaven and hell?

ted
TedM is offline  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:12 PM   #3
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: France
Posts: 169
Default hello

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedM
I ne comprennent pas. Par la
"sûreté" et "bonjour" voulez-vous dire le ciel et l'enfer ?
ted
excuse me, The message on the eternal life according to Jesus and Paul?

thank you.
chimaira is offline  
Old 12-10-2005, 06:33 AM   #4
CJD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: greater Orlando area
Posts: 832
Default

As you dig through this, chimaira, always keep in front of you the default Jewish position, unless you have very strong reasons to do otherwise: Both Jesus and Paul would have conceived of God's future (and his people with him) as a tangible, earthy reality — not some wispy, ethereal, floating-on-clouds-with-wings-and-harps "hereafter." This is what the resurrection pointed to, and this is what both Jesus and Paul are seen assuming.

In short, being "saved" from the wrath to come (i.e., God's wrath) meant taking part in the eternal, resurrected life. When God judges the world, he will show, by resurrecting his people, that they are vindicated, i.e., that they are his, abiding in him. (This is what it means, by the way, for Jesus to be the "first fruits.") This did not include the end of space and time, but the renewal of it.

Hopefully, not all of this will get lost in translation.

Best,

CJD
CJD is offline  
Old 12-10-2005, 04:10 PM   #5
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: France
Posts: 169
Default hello

Thank you CJD it is instructive and useful. I wants to know the message about the eternelle life according to Jesus and Paul in the NT and knowledge if they are similar, can somebody help me?




























[ QUOTE=CJD]As que vous creusez par ceci, chimaira,
toujours subsistance devant vous la position juive de défaut, Ã*
moins que vous ayez des raisons très fortes de faire autrement :
Jésus et Paul auraient conçu du futur de Dieu (et de ses
personnes avec lui) comme réalité réelle et terreuse - un non
certain wispy, éthéré, les flotter-sur-nuage-avec-aile-et-harpes
"ci-après." Est c'Ã* ce que la résurrection s'est dirigée, et
est ce ce que Jésus et Paul sont assumer vu. En bref, "étant
économisé" de la colère pour venir (c.-Ã*-d., la colère de Dieu)
participer signifié Ã* l'éternel, ressuscité la vie. Quand
Dieu juge le monde, il montrera, en ressuscitant ses personnes,
qu'elles sont défendues, c.-Ã*-d., qu'elles sont Ã* lui, demeurant
dans lui. (c'est ce que signifie il, d'ailleurs, pour que Jésus
soit les "premiers fruits.") Ceci n'a pas inclus la fin de
l'espace et du temps, mais le renouvellement de lui. Si tout va
bien, pas toute la ceci perdra dans la traduction Mieux,
CJD[/QUOTE ]
chimaira is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:48 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.