Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 09-24-2008, 08:20 PM

link

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David Montgomery, a University of Washington professor of Earth and space sciences noted for his study of how soil and rivers shape civilizations, has been named one of 25 new MacArthur Fellows.

. . .

"With a scientist's rigor, a historian's curiosity and an environmentalist's passion, Montgomery is leading investigations into the ecological consequences of a wide range of Earth surface processes," the MacArthur Foundation said in a statement.

Montgomery expects to use the MacArthur award money to support field research in remote parts of the world and underwrite work on a new book, "Phantom Deluge," which will explore how geology and theology have influenced each other in the accounts of great historic floods.

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One book, tentatively entitled "Phantom Deluge," is about floods and the "cross pollination" of scientific and theological thought. His scope ranges from Noah's ark to Native American flood legends and how geology has affected religious thought and vice versa.

Montgomery is the author of Dirt (or via: amazon.co.uk), which seems to argue that the whole of agriculture is misguided.

premjan · 09-25-2008, 07:51 AM

The Hindu historical timeline is built around the notion of recurring civilization collapse and rebirth. My guess is we are fairly close to the end times.

mountainman · 09-25-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

The Hindu historical timeline is built around the notion of recurring civilization collapse and rebirth. My guess is we are fairly close to the end times.

My guess is that the end times and the beginning times (of all living creatures) is an awareness - which is at one with itself, and which represents the spirit (or the spark) of life. Mind you premjan, I did say I was making a guess. Over.

Best wishes,

Pete

premjan · 09-25-2008, 04:06 PM

End times is not a big deal in Hinduism it is just sort of like a dissolving of old mores and the birth of new cultures.

Lucis · 09-25-2008, 05:07 PM

it's interesting to note that in hinduism, the 'dark age' (kaligyuga) began 3102 BC. this is not too far away from the date the flood or the "beginning of the world" if you take the bible literally.

premjan · 09-25-2008, 10:55 PM

If you take the flood metaphorically (as Hindus do quite often) as being memetic rather than tangible, the dissolution of the old and the construction of the new rather than a literal literal flood, then it really becomes non-controversial in the extreme. 3000 BC is a reasonable date for the start of agricultural history in major riverine civilizations and probably was a time of great cultural ferment, e.g. the incursion of the Indo-Europeans into Europe & South Asia etc. I have a feeling the notion of the flood has become literal when it was not so initially intended, perhaps invented by a non-literalist culture and then borrowed. Ditto for the Eden metaphor which has something IMO to do with enlightenment, the evolution of intelligence, the triune brain etc.

MortalWombat · 09-26-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucis

it's interesting to note that in hinduism, the 'dark age' (kaligyuga) began 3102 BC. this is not too far away from the date the flood or the "beginning of the world" if you take the bible literally.

It's also interesting that a worldwide flood around this time didn't seem to have interrupted the continuity of the flourishing civilizations in Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus Valley. I wonder why that is.

bacht · 09-26-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucis

it's interesting to note that in hinduism, the 'dark age' (kaligyuga) began 3102 BC. this is not too far away from the date the flood or the "beginning of the world" if you take the bible literally.

The classical writers mentioned the Bronze and Iron Ages, preceded by the Gold and Silver. It's all been downhill...

premjan · 09-26-2008, 07:49 AM

Hindus don't take the flood myth literally.

Casper · 09-26-2008, 08:40 AM

Sounds like it is dangerously close to environmental determinism, which is one of the issues I had with Murdock's astrotheology bent.

But geomorphology itself is a fascinating field.

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09-25-2008, 07:51 AM	#2
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	The Hindu historical timeline is built around the notion of recurring civilization collapse and rebirth. My guess is we are fairly close to the end times.

09-25-2008, 04:06 PM	#4
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	End times is not a big deal in Hinduism it is just sort of like a dissolving of old mores and the birth of new cultures.

09-25-2008, 05:07 PM	#5
Lucis Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 666	it's interesting to note that in hinduism, the 'dark age' (kaligyuga) began 3102 BC. this is not too far away from the date the flood or the "beginning of the world" if you take the bible literally.

09-25-2008, 10:55 PM	#6
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	If you take the flood metaphorically (as Hindus do quite often) as being memetic rather than tangible, the dissolution of the old and the construction of the new rather than a literal literal flood, then it really becomes non-controversial in the extreme. 3000 BC is a reasonable date for the start of agricultural history in major riverine civilizations and probably was a time of great cultural ferment, e.g. the incursion of the Indo-Europeans into Europe & South Asia etc. I have a feeling the notion of the flood has become literal when it was not so initially intended, perhaps invented by a non-literalist culture and then borrowed. Ditto for the Eden metaphor which has something IMO to do with enlightenment, the evolution of intelligence, the triune brain etc.

09-26-2008, 07:49 AM	#9
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Hindus don't take the flood myth literally.

09-26-2008, 08:40 AM	#10
Casper Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 430	Sounds like it is dangerously close to environmental determinism, which is one of the issues I had with Murdock's astrotheology bent. But geomorphology itself is a fascinating field.

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