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Originally Posted by aa5874
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Originally Posted by badger3k
The way I understand it, Almah is a young woman, Bethulah is a virgin, and parthenos covers both words. The problem comes when the gospel writers interpolated the wrong sense of the word and created a virgin birth for their savior (ok, one of many possible reasons for that creation). Then later followers want to go back and rewrite what the texts (Isaiah in this case) actually say to fit their supposed "prophecy." It's a corruption, misuse and disrespect for the actual text. A bit ironic for people who claim to respect the text, when they really distort it. To be fair to the writers, you need to read the text in the context of the times, and be accurate with what the text actually says.
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But, what Greek word was used in the Septuagint for "Almah" before the the first Jesus story was ever written. |
I have enough trouble with Hebrew.
I commented on this in the Isaiah 37, Kings 19 similarity thread.
Isaiah 37:22
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this is the word which Yahweh has spoken concerning him. The virgin daughter of Zion has despised you and ridiculed you. The daughter of Jerusalem has shaken her head at you.
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The virign daughter is often capitalized and the Hebrew is betulat. It seems many Christian commentators say the virgin daughter is Ms. Mary. This strikes me as dubious but the plays with daughter, virgin, Zion, and Jersulaem are interesting.
It's not easy to find Jewish sources on this. Fundamentalist Jews seem to ignore the prophets.
I also gave this link for Almah:
Almah
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Some scholars contend that debates over the precise meaning of bethulah and almah are misguided because no Hebrew word encapsulates the idea of certain virginity.
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A good place to see some good examples looks like Lamentations 2
Lam 2:5
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The Lord is become as an enemy, he has swallowed up Israel; He has swallowed up all her palaces, he has destroyed his strongholds; He has multiplied in the daughter of Judah mourning and lamentation.
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2:8-10
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Yahweh has purposed to destroy the wall of the daughter of Zion; He has stretched out the line, he has not withdrawn his hand from destroying; He has made the rampart and wall to lament; they languish together.
Her gates are sunk into the ground; he has destroyed and broken her bars: Her king and her princes are among the nations where the law is not; Yes, her prophets find no vision from Yahweh.
The elders of the daughter of Zion sit on the ground, they keep silence; They have cast up dust on their heads; they have clothed themselves with sackcloth: The virgins of Jerusalem hang down their heads to the ground.
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Virgins here is betulot. Sometimes this is translated as young women though. Heavy stuff.
As I've said, the word betulat and variations probably but is not clearly virgin, whereas the word almah is a respectful term for a young unmarried woman, suggesting a virgin if only because it is respectful.
Note that the daughter/maiden theme is very extensive in this part of the bible (around the exile). It is obscure what it means, but I don't see this as tampering with the text after the fact for any nefarious reason.
10-22-2009, 06:51 PM
