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stephan huller · 10-26-2011, 11:52 AM

I have become utterly fascinated with the extant fragments of Methodius. I am also beginning to think the dates for him are too late. Eusebius doesn't mention him. Does anyone know where I can find an online edition of de Lepra?

Toto · 10-26-2011, 12:21 PM

Do you mean

Methodius_of_Olympus?

Quote:

Few reports have survived on the life of this first scientific opponent of Origen; even these short accounts present many difficulties. Eusebius does not mention him in his Church History, probably because he opposed various theories of Origen. We are indebted to Saint Jerome for the earliest accounts of him

Scientific opponent?

Quote:

Like Origen, he is strongly influenced by Plato's philosophy, and uses to a great extent the allegorical explanation of Scripture. Of his numerous works only one has come down to us complete in a Greek text: the dialogue on virginity, under the title Symposium, or on Virginity (Symposion e peri hagneias)[3]. In the dialogue, composed with reference to Plato's Symposium, he depicts a festive meal of ten virgins in the garden of Arete, at which each of the participators extols Christian virginity and its sublime excellence. It concludes with a hymn on Jesus as the Bridegroom of the Church. Larger fragments are preserved of several other writings in Greek; we know of other works from old versions in Slavonic, though some are abbreviated.

andrewcriddle · 10-26-2011, 12:26 PM

According to Jerome Eusebius mentioned Methodius in his Apology for Origen
Apology Against Rufinus

Quote:

Eusebius the Bishop of Cæsarea, of whom I have made mention above, in the sixth book of his Apology for Origen makes the same complaint against Methodius the bishop and martyr, which you make against me in your praises of me. He says: How could Methodius dare to write now against Origen, after having said this thing and that of his doctrines?

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse · 10-26-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Does anyone know where I can find an online edition of de Lepra?

You're an optimist, aren't you? How many Old Slavonic texts are online?

Bonwetsch, GCS 27 (1917), p.475-489 apparently contains something -- probably fragments of the Greek. But I don't think this is online.

Quote:

In this connection, we should introduce some reference to the hitherto undiscussed dialogue Sistelius: On Leprosy (De lepra). This work opens with an exchange between Sistelius and Eubolius, in which the "Lord's command" to study the spiritual meaning of the Torah is invoked in defense of a spiritual treatment of the provisions of Leviticus for the healing of leprosy, as bearing on the perfection of the Christian life. The "seed" of faith (Matthew 15:13), Eubolius insists in a sudden shift of reference, is sown in all souls, and those in whom it does not grow into a great tree are those who do not cultivate it. They are not to be regarded, as the Marcionites regard them, as souls trapped in the material world and incapable of being won away from its effects (De lepra 2:45). Since the reference to the "seed" of faith is similar to that in Origen's On Exodus, and since the main treatment of leprosy in the Sistelius is very largely dependent on Origen's On Leviticus, we may point, if only in passing, to these parallels as further evidence of Methodius' dependence on Origen in his treatment of the place of the study of the Scriptures in the Christian life.[2]

2 The reference to the parable of the sower is in Origen, In Ex. hom. I.1, which we have already noticed as playing an important part in the Symp. (see above, chap. 3, notes 22 and 55). The opening chapters of De lepra exist only in the Slavic translation, and are plainly abbreviated to a significant degree. The gist of the argument here, however, is clear enough. The reliance on Origen's treatment of Leviticus in the work will be taken up in Appendix 1, "The De lepra among Methodius' Writings."

(From Patterson, L. G., "Methodius of Olympus : Divine Sovereignty, Human Freedom, and Life in Christ", (1997), p.126)

There is an appendix on p.235 f. on "De lepra", where it is stated:

Quote:

It survives only in an abbreviated Slavic translation and as some Greek fragments, but the former and the latter combine to give us some notion of its original character and contents.

I suspect Bonwetsch is the source used.

stephan huller · 10-26-2011, 01:00 PM

Here is Bonwetsch in German:

http://books.google.com/books?id=INc...und%22&f=false

or at archive.org

http://www.archive.org/stream/method...e/n37/mode/2up

De Lepra starts on page 308.

mountainman · 10-26-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I have become utterly fascinated with the extant fragments of Methodius.

One of the reasons I find the study of Christian Origens so intriguing is that one can usually expect not just the appearance of any fragments by any one given author X, one may also expect the appearance of fragments by another given author called Pseudo-X. Why is this more often than not the rule rather than the exception? Does anyone know why this phenomenom is so pervasive with all these authors X and pseudo-X?

Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius

Quote:

Originally Posted by From Wikipedia

The Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius is a 7th-century apocalypse that shaped the eschatological imagination of Christendom throughout the Middle Ages. The work was written in Syriac in the late 7th century, in reaction to the Islamic conquest of the Near East, and is falsely attributed to the 4th-century Church Father Methodius of Olympus. It depicts many familiar Christian eschatological themes: the rise and rule of Antichrist, the invasions of Gog and Magog, and the tribulations that precede the end of the world.

A new element, probably adopted from the Tiburtine Sibyl, was a Messiah-like Last Roman Emperor, who would be a central figure in apocalyptic literature until the end of the mediæval period. It was translated into Greek soon after its composition, and thence into Latin (by the eighth century), Slavonic, Russian, Armenian, and Arabic.

Its precise date is difficult to ascertain; dates proposed by recent historians fall within the range 644 - 691 AD (Palmer 1993:225).

What on earth is a Messiah-like Last Roman Emperor?
Someone who is described as a Caesar Moses for example?

The English translation of this text does seem to be available here at scribd.com, but can anyone recommend a better version?

Roger Pearse · 10-26-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Here is Bonwetsch in German:

http://books.google.com/books?id=INc...und%22&f=false

or at archive.org

http://www.archive.org/stream/method...e/n37/mode/2up

De Lepra starts on page 308.

I didn't know this existed! Thank you!

From the look of it Bonwetsch translated directly from Old Slavonic (but didn't give a text) and added Greek fragments plus translation.

Is there a "volume 2"?

My German is wretched or I might be tempted to run this work across from German to English.

stephan huller · 10-26-2011, 04:02 PM

I don't see a volume 2. Someone like Wieland Willker is probably capable of translating it for you. His English is excellent. He certainly can read the Greek. Just a suggestion to keep costs down.

stephan huller · 10-27-2011, 12:38 AM

Another suggestion I keep running across as I go through biblindex is a whole host of works identified as 'Pseudo-Cyprian' which might date as early as the first part of the third century. I will get the complete list tomorrow (it's late) but most of this stuff isn't on line and it's in Latin. Should be easy for you Roger!

Roger Pearse · 10-27-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I don't see a volume 2. Someone like Wieland Willker is probably capable of translating it for you. His English is excellent. He certainly can read the Greek. Just a suggestion to keep costs down.

I wish. But Wieland is a busy man.

I think vol. 2 was probably a study -- the works were in vol. 1.

What led you to De lepra? What's the exciting bit about it?

10-26-2011, 11:52 AM	#1
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Methodius of Olympius I have become utterly fascinated with the extant fragments of Methodius. I am also beginning to think the dates for him are too late. Eusebius doesn't mention him. Does anyone know where I can find an online edition of de Lepra?

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10-26-2011, 01:00 PM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Here is Bonwetsch in German: http://books.google.com/books?id=INc...und%22&f=false or at archive.org http://www.archive.org/stream/method...e/n37/mode/2up De Lepra starts on page 308.

10-26-2011, 04:02 PM	#8
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I don't see a volume 2. Someone like Wieland Willker is probably capable of translating it for you. His English is excellent. He certainly can read the Greek. Just a suggestion to keep costs down.

10-27-2011, 12:38 AM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Another suggestion I keep running across as I go through biblindex is a whole host of works identified as 'Pseudo-Cyprian' which might date as early as the first part of the third century. I will get the complete list tomorrow (it's late) but most of this stuff isn't on line and it's in Latin. Should be easy for you Roger!

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