demoninho

Hi,

I heard Dyonisis/Bacchus also had been crucified for the sin of humanity and saw a documentary on the subject on the realiable belgian Canvas television station, but can't find any good sources on the web (just on Ishtar's crucifiction).

Could anyone tell me some more?

Rick Sumner

Sure. You won't find information on Dionysus being crucified because he wasn't. It's a folklore, repeated in the popular media until it's believed--an example of how retelling a story can make it "true" even today.

He was ripped to pieces by the Titans, at the behest of Hera, Zeus' wife. The Titans didn't think this was quite enough, so they also boiled his remains in water, before cooking them on the fire and feasting on his flesh. Hence the sacred meal.

This is why the followers of his school ripped fauns to pieces--as a symbol of Bacchus' death.

Euripides providesthis account of the Bacchae, or followers of the mystery tradition associated with Bacchus.

It's tough to find good information about Dionysius o/l. Too much www.ihatemyparentssoillbeapagan.com, but as a good rule of thumb, it's always best to approach parallels between Jesus and Mystery Schools with caution. They are there, to be sure, but they're far more often parallels in theme than parallels in narrative.

Regards,
Rick

demoninho

But I did find this picture of a crucified Bacchus/Orpheus

Toto

The picture is an amulet featured on the cover of the Jesus Mysteries book. It is fairly late - about the 3rd century as I recall, and may just be evidence of religious syncretism in the late Roman Empire.

joedad

Yes, it is a supposedly magical amulet. And it is older than any christian crucifixion iconography by a couple centuries.

Bede

No joedad, there are other Christian amulets showing Jesus on the cross from the same period. They are still magical but do not feature the syncretism with paganism Toto mentioned.

So it would be true to say that Christian magical iconography predates Christian religious iconography by a couple of centuries.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

joedad

Could you provide an explanation as to how you differentiate the two?

Bede

Magical amulets include special magic words, incantations and symbols etc intended to produce an automatic effect. Magic is believed to work if you get the spell right rather than if the diety feels like obliging.

Religious iconogrphy is intended to be a focus of worship. While one might ask the deity for something in prayer it is recognised that you might not get it. Hence religious iconography will not feature magical words (although in time the litany was co-opted for magic as well).

If you want to claim the magic and religious icon are the one and the same then we find Christians icons appear much earlier than usually stated.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

joedad

Bede,

Thanks for the clarification.That might help make the christian case for crucifixion. Any christian religious iconography with a crucifixion theme takes half a millenium to appear in the historical record.

Also, most, if not all of the earlier non-crucifixion religious iconography is not originally christian.

GakuseiDon

Does anyone know why that is? The Gospels seem to have been around since at least the early 100s CE, and they talk about a crucifixion. Why the 300 year gap before non-magical depictions of crucifixion? Was there a cultural bias about such things?