forty2oz

I was about halfway through the popular Global Flood thread when Dean Anderson popped off with such a remarkable post that I wanted to dive into it specifically. That's what this thread is for.

I won't quote the specific post, but what Dean noted was that nowhere in the bible does it actually state that anything written within its pages is fact, much less the inspired word of god. Is this accurate? Are there no passages in any of these books that even make an attempt to self validate their claims?

From my limited bible study I must agree that Dean is correct - there aren't any. To be honest, I feel retarded for never noticing it before. If anyone can pinpoint some scripture to the contrary I'd be much obliged. Otherwise, I'll just have to make Dean my new hero for this month.



(Thanks in advance for the research everyone has already done on this subject while my dumb ass took 34 years to figure it out)

P.S. This is probably the wrong forum - Mods, feel free to take care of your business.

Jet Black

yeah, this'll do better in one of the Goddy fora. let me hunt one down for you.

... aah BC&H... how does that suit?

Jet Black [EC] Mod

Non-praying Mantis

You are right, this is the wrong forum. Look to BC&H for this thread.

Crosspost with Jet Black!

NPM, E/C Mod

forty2oz

Thanks Mods. Feel free to throw me some insight on the subject if you're bored.

Ray Moscow

Well, as a former serious fundie I read the not-so-good Book a lot, and all that comes to mind to support the "Bible as fact" hypothesis are

1. a few passages from the Psalms that praise the greatness of the Torah, such as:

This applies just to the Torah and not to the whole Bible, of course, and as we know the Torah is one of the most problematic parts to take literally.

2. A verse from psuedo Paul:

Even this cannot apply to the whole Bible, since part of it was not written yet, and in any case it doesn't say "factual", just "inspired". Plus, it's a forgery.

3. A bit from the end of Revelation warning not to mess with the book, meaning just Revelation but which many argue applies to the whole Bible.


That's about it. It's not much, is it?

Ray

Dean Anderson

To be fair, I wasn't saying that nowhere in the Bible does any author assert that what they are writing is fact. That would be a bizarre thing for them to assert.

After all, if I wish to say that my name is Dean Anderson, I simply say that my name is Dean Anderson rather than asserting that it is a fact that my name is Dean Anderson.

What I was saying was that nowhere in the Bible does it assert that the various stories presented in the Torah are eyewitness accounts of history (which is what was being claimed by another poster).

Ray Moscow

The tradition view of the Torah is that Moses somehow channeled the parts he didn't see, including his death.

Modern scholarship of course shows that multiple traditions were combined in the Torah, and the "Moses authorship" theory is not valid.

Dean Anderson

[Sybil Fawlty] Oh, I know... [/Sybil Fawlty]

forty2oz

Understood. I just liked the point you brought up. If the explanation of the universe really lies in a book, certainly said book would claim to be the explanation - without the claim (or an author for that matter) why not dismiss it as fiction?

ninewands

I would add that Maimonides went so far as to write that anyone who believes the haggadah are literally true is a fool. He upheld the truth of The Law, but the stories ... no.