Thomas II

I don't know what you mean here.

Chili

First let me say that I like the direction you are taking.
I will give you my perspective for your perusal.

According to me the Gospels take place in the mind of one person about where religion comes to an end. It is true, after all, that if religion is a way to enlightenment it must end with enlightenment. In Catholicism we call this Purgatory and so the gospels are a Purgatory event that ends in Heaven.

Enlightenment is when the two minds become one and we learn to live with it and remain sane. For this a slow merger must take place for which we are ready, and are ready to receive. Maybe you remember how Plato held that is was impossible for us to leave the Cave and so on.

I'll go right into it and we'll see what happens.

John the Baptist was 'born of old' in the subconscious mind. He is the involutional (persistent) portion of Joseph's melancholy (Joseph is the undergoer of the event) and his 'birth' prepares the way in removing the persistent will that drives the ego of Joseph. In this sense does he replace Lucifer who is pacified to make this possible (Aristotle called it "things on the run" and we say that "the shepherds were out herding sheep at night" when Christ was born into the conscious mind of Joseph. Joseph was beyond theology is Allen Watts and means that there is "no room at the inn" for rational thoughts, wherefore the shepherds were out that night (the shepherds were his strongholds or trades or whatever it was that made him the wily entrepreneur he was). Notice that this was the function of John at this time.

Who was John? John was the celestial water of the subconscious mind at the time of Joseph's birth. He is called the Alpha or "the old" or the reign of God at the beginning before the accumulations of Joseph ("the new") are added to this (remember here that we are combining two minds, the old and the new later call the Alpha and Omega).

John was beheaded to make it a conscious event. In other words, reason returns to reborn Joseph, now called Jesus, since Joseph must decrease and Christ must increase through the absorption of John (the celestial sea) in the mind of Jesus the Christ. The identity will always remain in heaven as it was on earth or we could not be the same person to enjoy our life to the fullest. You are correct here.

The reason they claim that the person must die (I mean, how can an ego die if it has no corporeal existence?) is because 'if' the sense of self is not death resurrection will not follow and the saved sinner paradox will remain. Ie, there will be no fusion of the two minds and that will become a tragedy that drives people crazy, yes, because our own mind is where this all takes place. You are correct, it is dangerous.Yes because our qualities must return to us if reason (sanity) must prevail. It is the bare naked ego that is crucified. The conscious mind is emptied in Gethsemane, the clothes [that make the man] are divided, and the senses are pierced to indicate that they no longer have an effect on our will, at least not to the point that we are a slave to them. I actually think that in internal re-routing of the nerves takes place and I got this from an argument wherein it was shown that this is possible. But that is not important for now.

Don't forget, the shepherds became apostles who helped "finish the race," went into hiding, once again, and must return after the crucifixion so sanity will return. I would call the crucifixion a non-rational event if the ego must be crucified. The light of common day is transformed by the ego awareness and with the ego crucified daylight will not return for Magdalene. Magdalene was Eve who Adam (the ego) took to be his wife. Both reside in the conscious mind (Tree of Knowledge) so with the Adam (the ego) gone, the light of common day will not return for Magdalene. I hold here that the light of common day is an illusion but useful while outside Eden where we are in oblivion (see shadows) without full view of the celestial light.

Some confirmation of this can be found in Rev.22:5 and also Rev.21:1 where the sea is no longer because it has become one in the new heaven and earth. In other words, the soul is no longer because the [celestial] sea is our soul.Resurrection is completion. Jesus dies and Christ is set free, here now Joseph as Freeman without a soul whereby he was predestined and wherein his mind was divided (Determined) before.I don't want a penis context but I like the foreshadow made by circumcision.
The persona (mask) that covers the head is thrown out here.But the attachments must he raised. There is nothing wrong with them. It is just our attachment to them that is wrong because we are temporal in our conscious mind while we are eternal in our subconscious mind.

Chili

They all are the same. Just the vehicle to get there is different which is why we can look at the archetype to see how well the vehicle works for them.

Thomas II

Ok... The problem that I have with all you're saying is that it seems a bit scatered; you jump too much from one place to the other. It's like we opened a book that you have written, but you are going back and forth without introducing it to me (and other readers here). It would be good if we start from the begining.
There are two issues that I want to explore here:1.The Genesis story 2.The Gospel.
Now, instead of going about it like if it was a historical description of actual facts, let's go about it as an ALLEGORICAL ACCOUNT.(Aside:and just to be in the same page: an allegory is an expression through SYMBOLISM of truths or
generalizations about human experience.) So the main issue here is to identify the SYMBOLS and then figure out their MEANING or the lesson found within that meaning, and how it affects or is USEFUL to US ALL NOW.
Please also give me some reference about the source of this or that symbolism in the cases we don't agree on, so that way we can figure out which is the right one.
Would you like to start with the Gospel part or the Genesis?

Chili

It doesn't matter to me. My problem is time and I would rather return to this later.

NOGO

This all sounds like Amos.
He just changed his name.

Thomas II

Whatyou'retalkingbout,Nogo?
Whoyou'recallingAmos? :huh:

Thomas II

I'm not in a hurry...BTW,where did you get all this stuff you mentioned,what book? Do you follow any group that talks about this??

(Takes Chili aside)...Er...Who the heck is Amos? This dude here,Nogo,says that I am Amos??... :huh:

Toto

Thomas II: NOGO's post followed Chili's. He says that Chili sounds like Amos. He's right! Chili is Amos. I thought everyone knew.

Chili

Hi, we'll return to this later but now I see why you think I am going back and forth to Gen. Well, I am not, really, but just pointing out that the ego is Adam and when the persona, (ego or Adam) is crucified only Lord God will be left (for there is nothing else). This Lord God is JohnB, as I said, to which the gatherings of Adam must be added to become the new Lord and God (called Alpha and Omega in Rev.) and that is when "it is finished." This is the basis for Jesus being the second Adam and Mary the second Eve since the first Eve was left in the dark when Jesus was crucified.

So, there is no history in Gen. 1-3. but that is where we come full circle at the end of the Gospels.

I have an argument someplace where Adam and Eve were created (conjectured) in the conscious mind but were never formed to have an existence of being and therefore remain an illusion. This becomes clear in the shame/no shame expression between Gen 2 and Gen 3. (so we don't really have to feel sorry for Magdalene even if she gave us a good ride).