Toto

Is English your native language or am I missing something here?

renassault

As usual you contribute very little..
And no, it is not.

Toto

So what was your "contribution?" Lost in translation?

renassault

Well, personally I don't think "take nothing save a mere staff" and "do not take X, Y, Z, a staff" is a contradiction, because the sense is the same. As to what the historical Jesus SAID, clearly he couldn't have said both, but that doesn't constitute an error, since Jewish culture did not stress the accuracy of unimportant details such as order of words, but the essence.

Personally, I think this is a really interesting example. Everything seems to point to Mark's wordage being closest to the original: The saying is indirect, whereas in Matthew and Luke it is turned into a direct saying. It seems more historically reminiscent in Mark, whereas it seems the no staff was changed for effect in Matthew (and Luke).

But on the other hand, the indirectness of the saying means little, especially seeing how confused of a reminiscent memory it seems to be, which certainly might give priority to Matthew or Luke.

My personal opinion is that:

Luke 9:3a is less original than Mk 6:8/Mt 10:9-10a due to the specific mention of money in your belt in the latter. However, Luke 9:3b is probably more original because of its style. The emphasis of the lack of supplies for the traveler probably changed the "only a staff" to "no staff" in Matthew and Luke. Since Lk 9:3b is more original, the only way the staff could have been taken for the journey ("Take a staff"), is if it was in the beginning prior to the negative commands, as it is in Luke and Mark. Matthew's list of "nor gold, nor silver, nor copper" seems artificial, and his order omits bread (which would certainly be on the list). The "or even two tunics" in Matthew suggests Luke 9:3b is original, which means that was the last item on the list. "No sandals" is probably Matthew's addition because of the tunics (also "Do not acquire X, or a Y" is a little weird as opposed to "Take no bread, nor bag"). So the closest to the original, under the presumption that this was something that Christ said of course, is somewhat a mix of Mark and Luke in my opinion of the sort:

"Take nothing for your journey, save a staff; neither bread, nor a bag ("for your journey" would have probably been implied, hence another addition of Matthew), nor money in your belts; and do not even take two tunics apiece."

Dark Virtue

What does "less original" or "more original" mean?

Toto

How is taking a staff the same as not taking a staff? Or do you think that one is hyperbole? Or both? :huh: