Freethought & Rationalism Archive

EGGO · 10-02-2003, 03:42 PM

From another messageboard. I was sharing that one joke BigJim gave us here. The red is me just making jokes, but he wants to argue, the quote is him. So let's go on with it.

Correct, they should smite the homosexuals and stone the raped.

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Homosexuality as itself shouldn't be tolerated but again, since when do we kill homosexuals? We're not the law, at least not here in America. And you will need to show proof of when we stoned raped women as well. Remember also, not all christians are Jewish, most of them are Gentiles so you can't pin the blame on christianity for what God did (Sodom and Gamora)

I can recall many times such a hate crime was committed. A lot of what I see is them trying to make themselves become the law. They also claim their way IS the law.

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

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lol it wasnt a haircut they were refering too. Nothing wrong with a haircut. But lemme first start off that these are the Sundry Laws (I.E. laws given to isreal, obviously laws in America are different; not saying that they are totally irrelevent but let me explain the reasoning behind that with this commentary i found).

27. The corners of your heads - That is your temples, ye shall not cut off the hair of your heads round about your temples. This the Gentiles did, either for the worship of their idols, to whom young men used to consecrate their hair, being cut off from their heads, as Homer, Plutarch and many others write; or in funerals or immoderate mournings, as appears from Isaiah xv, 2 Jer. xlviii, 37. And the like is to be thought concerning the beard or the hair in the corner, that is, corners of the beard. The reason then of this prohibition is because God would not have his people agree with idolaters, neither in their idolatries, nor in their excessive sorrowing, no nor so much as in the appearances of it.

Hmm I didnt know though However again nothing wrong with a haircut. It applied more to the times and isreal.

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

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Ok you totally changed this around. Theres nothing wrong with Two Crops in fields by each other because technically no farm ever puts crops in the same field, you should know that each is seperated into their own groups with only the edges of each next to each other, its breeding two crops together (i.e. a carrot and a mushroom) thats wrong. Here let me include the actually biblical passage.
LV 19:19
You are to keep My (God) Statues (laws). You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upong you of two kinds of materia mixed together
It doesnt say stone anyone for that matter. However, it is a law and you can be punished. Let me explain the law. Basically Hybridization is bad. A carrot shant breed with a pea. A Cow shouldn't be bred with a Pig for example. You shouldn't mix genes. The same goes techinically for cloth. Hybridization which we can thank evolution for is wrong in God's eyes. A frog shouldnt produce a Human etc... Now of course a horse and Donkey come from the same ancestor so they are the same kind, which is why they can be bred, but obviously a dog and a cat is just wrong.

So it's ok for an animal to breed with something different as long as it's in the same family. In retrospect (since we're humans) we're allowed to breed with monkeys. Anyway, even so, trying to do anything like that with animals is also something that just can't be done. It just won't work since the genes aren't compatible. So of COURSE this is true, it's something we as objective witnesses has seen.

Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16)

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Well its a sundry law so again it doesnt apply to america and of course after Jesus we are supposed to be a little more forgiving. or else those people that say G** d*** would be dead. However, the principle is important so let me first quote the passage.
LV 24:10-16
10. Now the son of an Isrealite woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the sons of Isreal. 11 And the Isrealite women blaspegemed the Name(Gods name) and cursed(cussed i guess). So they brought him to Moses. (Now his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, and of the tribe of Dan.) 12. And they put him in custody so that the command of the LORD might be made clear to them. 13. Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 14. "Bring the one who has cursed outside the camp, and let all who heard him lay their hands on his head; then let all the congregation stone him 15. And you shall speak to the sons of Isreal, saying, 'If anyone curse his God, then he shall bear his sin. 16. Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly strone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death".
Hoo-ee thats some harsh punishment, but understand this was Pre-Jesus times so there wasnt this whole age of forgiveness thing going on. God took sin very seriously and at best people back then could only cover their sins up with a sacrafice not be fogiven(this didnt happen till Jesus died and rose). It also can be used as a principle today that God still doesn't like the Name to be blasphemed to we should avoid doing it, though we can be forgiven for doing it.

*brings in the logic of why he would have people do this if he was going to come in and be their savior in the first place*

Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

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Whoa did you read the passage here lemme post it.

LV 20:14
If there is a man who marries a Woman and her mother, it is immorality; both he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no immorality in your midst.

so 1) yes it meant sex but it also meant marriage lol. 2) Wasn't a family affair it was a town/community/country affair. Remember these are God's people. God hates immorality, and despises sin so best way to solve it is not allow it to proliferate. Imagine how very few homosexuals, murderers and rapists there be if we had scrict laws ;-) Hell in islam they cut your body parts off if you do something wrong,(gee no wonder the crime rates so low). But again since this is the age of forgiveness (post jesus) we can forgive. However, principle still remains it is sin and WRONG.

Oooh, a get out of free sin card...I like that. The sound of Christianity is starting to interest me again. From here, I'll argue about god's omnicience and free will.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring it to your attention. Sorry if there was too much to read.

EGGO · 10-03-2003, 07:18 PM

Crap, I should not have tried to read what he said so tired. I even found mistakes on my part. Oh well *ignore*.

Rational Human · 10-06-2003, 08:36 AM

I fully enjoyed your post Eggo. And don't worry about mistakes. The religious zealots often tend to either be totally blind by their faith or possess a mind so devious that they can argue any point.

I loved how he turned the argument against having two seeds in the same field towards crossbreeding genes. Also, the fact that he refuses to mention the artificial threads in the dress is note worthy. I'm glad he didn't try to argue that the Egyptians had polyester! As it is, I was totally unaware that the Ancient Egyptians had knowledge of crossbreeding genes in plants!

BioBeing · 10-06-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle
�
Now of course a horse and Donkey come from the same ancestor so they are the same kind, which is why they can be bred, but obviously a dog and a cat is just wrong.

Two cows are different kinds, but a horse and a donkey are the same kind? Get him to define �kinds�!

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you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed,
...
Basically Hybridization is bad. A carrot shant breed with a pea. � You shouldn't mix genes.

The quote he gives says do not sow two kinds of seed. Nothing about �do not artifically cross pollinate� or �do not graft a part from one plant onto another�. How does he get from do not plant to do not hybridize?

Celsus · 10-06-2003, 11:51 PM

This thread does not seem to be a serious attempt to engage in exegesis, so I'm sending it to ~Elsewhere~.

Joel

ElectEngr · 10-09-2003, 12:02 PM

Paging Dr Splicer...Dr Gene Splicer....

Later,
ElectEngr

Warcraft3 · 10-09-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElectEngr
Paging Dr Splicer...Dr Gene Splicer....

Later,
ElectEngr

Yo ElectEngr whats up? Fellow EE here

Just wondering what field you are in (Digital, Antennas, Signal Processing, Solid State, etc)?

Russ

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10-03-2003, 07:18 PM	#2
EGGO Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Amerrka Posts: 688	Crap, I should not have tried to read what he said so tired. I even found mistakes on my part. Oh well ignore.

10-06-2003, 08:36 AM	#3
Rational Human Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 8	I fully enjoyed your post Eggo. And don't worry about mistakes. The religious zealots often tend to either be totally blind by their faith or possess a mind so devious that they can argue any point. I loved how he turned the argument against having two seeds in the same field towards crossbreeding genes. Also, the fact that he refuses to mention the artificial threads in the dress is note worthy. I'm glad he didn't try to argue that the Egyptians had polyester! As it is, I was totally unaware that the Ancient Egyptians had knowledge of crossbreeding genes in plants!

10-06-2003, 11:51 PM	#5
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	This thread does not seem to be a serious attempt to engage in exegesis, so I'm sending it to ~Elsewhere~. Joel

10-09-2003, 12:02 PM	#6
ElectEngr Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: ahhh, I've moved since then.... Posts: 1,729	Paging Dr Splicer...Dr Gene Splicer.... Later, ElectEngr

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