Freethought & Rationalism Archive

skepticdude · 10-29-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Acts 11:1-18
1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him,
3 saying, "You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them." 4 But Peter began speaking and proceeded to explain to them in orderly sequence, saying,
5 "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object coming down like a great sheet lowered by four corners from the sky; and it came right down to me,
6 and when I had fixed my gaze on it and was observing it I saw the four-footed animals of the earth and the wild beasts and the crawling creatures and the birds of the air.
7 "I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'
8 "But I said, 'By no means, Lord, for nothing unholy or unclean has ever entered my mouth.'
9 "But a voice from heaven answered a second time, 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.'
10 "This happened three times, and everything was drawn back up into the sky.
11 "And behold, at that moment three men appeared at the house in which we were staying, having been sent to me from Caesarea.
12 "The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man's house.
13 "And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, 'Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here;
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.
16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Would anybody here agree with F.C. Baur's hypothesis that there are signs in Acts that the original gospel of Jesus positively excluded Gentiles?

How can the apostles be taking issue with Peter for eating with Gentiles, when this was mere imitation of Jesus, who also fellowshipped with Gentiles?

Might Acts 11 give us a glimpse into the legalistic form of original Christianity before Paul got a hold of it?

show_no_mercy · 10-29-2009, 11:43 AM

I'm not aware of any gospel off the top of my head where Jesus is explicitly preaching to the "nations", however, in Matt 15:24 Jesus explicitly states that he was only sent to Jews.

Of course, at the end of Matt (and the LE in Mark) Jesus instructs his disciples to preach to all of the nations.

aa5874 · 10-29-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skepticdude

Quote:

Acts 11:1-18
1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him,
3 saying, "You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them." 4 But Peter began speaking and proceeded to explain to them in orderly sequence, saying,
5 "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object coming down like a great sheet lowered by four corners from the sky; and it came right down to me,
6 and when I had fixed my gaze on it and was observing it I saw the four-footed animals of the earth and the wild beasts and the crawling creatures and the birds of the air.
7 "I also heard a voice saying to me, 'Get up, Peter; kill and eat.'
8 "But I said, 'By no means, Lord, for nothing unholy or unclean has ever entered my mouth.'
9 "But a voice from heaven answered a second time, 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.'
10 "This happened three times, and everything was drawn back up into the sky.
11 "And behold, at that moment three men appeared at the house in which we were staying, having been sent to me from Caesarea.
12 "The Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man's house.
13 "And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying, 'Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here;
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'
15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.
16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Would anybody here agree with F.C. Baur's hypothesis that there are signs in Acts that the original gospel of Jesus positively excluded Gentiles?

How can the apostles be taking issue with Peter for eating with Gentiles, when this was mere imitation of Jesus, who also fellowshipped with Gentiles?

Might Acts 11 give us a glimpse into the legalistic form of original Christianity before Paul got a hold of it?

Acts of the Apostles is probably the single most important document in dating the Pauline Epistles.

The name Paul appears to be a late addition to Acts of the Apostles, it would appear that the author of Acts did not know that Saul would have been later called Paul.

When the author of Acts introduced other new characters with other names he immediately gives the second name at the introduction, however with Saul, 6 chapters later, Saul is just changed to Paul.

The author of Acts, immediately at introduction for the first time, claimed Joseph was called Barsabas, Simon called Niger and John called Mark, but Saul was introduced in chapter 7 without alerting the reader that Saul was called Paul. The name change occurred in chapter 13.

Oddly it appears no other Church writer referred to Paul as Saul.

Now, it would also be noticed that the Pauline writer appeared to be correcting information found in Acts concerning the beginning of his ministry and trips to Jerusalem.

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10-29-2009, 11:43 AM	#2
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	I'm not aware of any gospel off the top of my head where Jesus is explicitly preaching to the "nations", however, in Matt 15:24 Jesus explicitly states that he was only sent to Jews. Of course, at the end of Matt (and the LE in Mark) Jesus instructs his disciples to preach to all of the nations.

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