Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

This thread I would like to be solely about the early church writers and Acts 8:37.

Acts 8:37 (KJB) - similar TR, Geneva, Tyndale, NKJV, Youngs, etc
And Philip said,
If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
and he answered and said,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 8:37 (Westcott-Hort, NA27, NIV, NAS, RSV, etc)
__________________________ (this space intentionally left blank)

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Textually, and in terms of the Bible version dialog, this can be considered a fulcrum verse.

Here are a number of aspects of this verse.

1) Doctrinally and textually significant
2) An inclusion / omission textual issue
3) Internal evidences are a major consideration, also early church writers
4) Reformation Bible (Textus Receptus) and Greek Majority Text Bibles disagree
5) Included in every Reformation Bible
6) Excluded from every modern version (ie. footnote or disclaimer note or omission)
7) Sister verse to the heavenly witnesses
8) A window for looking at Westcott-Hort theories, with the extra challenge of ECW
9) A window for looking at Reformation Bible / TR theories
10) Dean Burgon did not write a direct defense or attack on the vese
11) Deep reservoir of early church writer citations
12) Apparatus helps and deficiencies

Please allow this thread to be only (or almost only) about #11 (and #12 as it relates to the early church writers). For the first post I would like to simply include the verse. Then perhaps what we have so far on the forum, simply the factual information, sans politics. Then the actual references, starting with Irenaeus and Cyrpian citations and moving ahead.

Thanks.

The section is three verses, with one major variant. The section is in bold, it is best to see this to begin with as a three-verse section (or two if there is an omission). Verse 37 is included in many Greek and Latin manuscripts, and excluded in many, and is bold below.

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Acts 8:36-38 (KJB)

And as they went on their way,
they came unto a certain water:
and the eunuch said, See, here is water;
what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said,
If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
and he answered and said,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water,
both Philip and the eunuch;
and he baptized him.

=================================

Thanks for your help and study on this Bible verse.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

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Note : I am using ECW == early church writers

A takeoff on ECF (early church fathers) which I consider a mistaken appellation for these references. Many quotations will be from those of widely differing 'church' status, calling them 'fathers' may be unhelpful in multiple ways. And a reference from a man considered a 'heretic' can be as textually significant as that of one called 'orthodox'. Even quotations from those outside the 'church' may be very relevant (e.g. a poet) .. however that is rare enough that ECW is my choice, and if others want to use the same, excellent.

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Let us keep in mind that there are a few issues that come up that are special in early church writer referencing.

1) Quotations versus allusions (the 'strength' of the citation)
2) Completeness and accuracy of #1
3) Citing book or author or (when accurate, adds 'strength)
4) Citing scripture or 'it is written' (complementary or substitute to #3)
5) Apparatus inclusion (shorthand method to see modern scholarship)
6) Commentaries through the ages.. ancient and modern .. about the ECW reference
7) Ante-Nicene Post-Nicene etc - the period of the reference
8) Textual variant or inclusion/omission
9) Evidentiary standard on inclusion/omission

#6 is more likely on the supercharged verses like the heavenly witnesses and 1 Timothy 3:16.

#7 is very significant. Generally references from before 150 AD are viewed differently than those before 300 AD which are viewed differently than those after Nicea. The first group is often allusion, the second group is often loose quotation, the third group will have the most precise and detailed citation. Even from 300 AD to the 400s you could place another niche in evaluation

#8 is critical and rarely discussed cogently. On careful examination it can be seen that evidentiary considerations, viewing and weighing the reference, will be radically different in the two types of variants. Probability analysis will be very different. In inclusion/omission the ensuing "evidences from silence" against the verse will have wide strength or weakness .. e.g. a homily could be virtually probative against, as could a quotation skipping over the section at issue .. while a loose collection of words from the book may be very minor evidence of silence. Also within inclusion/omission your paradigm of the text can vary greatly (affecting specifically the weighing of internal evidences, which is major in inclusion/omission)

#9 What does it take to show with high probability that the verse was in the Bible of the writer (usually Greek or Latin, sometimes Syriac). Are the standards reasonably agreed upon and somewhat standard (while this is a problem in some other verses, I do not expect major variations in the scholarship on Acts 8:37)

Especially on inclusion/omission, you also have issues about whether an otherwise clear reference is lessened because of auxiliary aspects. Another issue that comes up is the dual-language nature of many of the writers, who may have had access to Bibles in both Latin and Greek, where the textual evidences differ.

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The following afaik represents all the data on these references on the FRDB forum at this time, and was given by spin in the context of discussions on the Westcott-Hort theories. I will simply give the quote. Irenaeus and Cyprian had been mentioned and this reference was given.

Irenaeus's Philip says :
'that this was Jesus, and that the Scripture was fulfilled in Him; as did also the believing eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, "I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God."'

We had some back-and-forth as to the strength and the apparatus and the Metzger citation on another thread, I would prefer to keep those out of this thread, except as straight-line scholarship references.

Thus in our discussion the following references were given.

Apparatus of Münster (pro)
Irenaeus Cyprian Chromatius Speculum

the tradition of the Ethiopian's confession of faith in Christ was current as early as the latter part of the second century, for Irenaeus quotes part of it (Against Heresies, III.xii.8).
(A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Bruce Metzger, 360)

Bruce Metzger was arguing against authenticity, and giving his overview of date of origin. In his view the Irenaeus citation in Against Heresies (more detail coming) can be seen as "Irenaeus quotes part of it". Note, the late Bruce Metzger does not specifically say as scripture, although using the word "quotes" means from a book and Bruce Metzger does not give any other theory for that book than the Book of Acts.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

The translation of the Irenaeus citation that is normally given was agreed upon in the earlier discussion.
Here you can see the book reference.

[Philip declared] that this was Jesus,
and that the Scripture was fulfilled in Him;
as did also the believing eunuch himself:
and, immediately requesting to be baptized,
he said, "I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God."

- Irenaeus (115-202 AD), Against Heresies III.xii.8

The Ante-Nicene fathers: Translations of the writings of the Fathers Down to 325 A.D.
(Roberts - Donaldson - Coxe Vol 1 1885)
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...eus-book3.html
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf0....iv.xiii-p45.1
http://books.google.com/books?id=ly4...J&pg=RA1-PT134

============================================

While this citation by itself does make the apparatus without qualification (e.g. parenthesis to indicate an allusion) it is very helpful to show that the scholarship tends to omit an auxiliary Irenaeus reference. Not a remote reference, we have a oft unreferenced direct and detailed discussion of the verses at issue. (emphasis added).

Ireaneaus 4.23.2
Chapter XXIII.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...eus-book4.html

2. For this reason, also, Philip, when he had discovered the eunuch of the Ethiopians' queen reading these words which had been written: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and as a lamb is dumb before the shearer, so He opened not His mouth: in His humiliation His judgment was taken away;" and all the rest which the prophet proceeded to relate in regard to His passion and His coming in the flesh, and how He was dishonoured by those who did not believe Him; easily persuaded him to believe on Him, that He was Christ Jesus, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered whatsoever the prophet had predicted, and that He was the Son of God, who gives eternal life to men. And immediately when [Philip] had baptized him, he departed from him. For nothing else [but baptism] was wanting to him who had been already instructed by the prophets: he was not ignorant of God the Father, nor of the rules as to the [proper] manner of life, but was merely ignorant of the advent of the Son of God, which, when he had become acquainted with, in a short space of time, he went on his way rejoicing, to be the herald in Ethiopia of Christ's advent. Therefore Philip had no great labour to go through with regard to this man, because he was already prepared in the fear of God by the prophets. For this reason, too, did the apostles, collecting the sheep which had perished of the house of Israel, and discoursing to them from the Scriptures, prove that this crucified Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the living God; and they persuaded a great multitude, who, however, [already] possessed the fear of God. And there were, in one day, baptized three, and four, and five thousand men.

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It is easy to see that this is the discussion of the scripture section above, and that many phrases and descriptions only make sense if the verse Acts 8:37 was in the Irenaeus Bible. As an example.

Acts 8:37
And Philip said,
If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
and he answered and said,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Ireneaus
easily persuaded him to believe on Him, that He was Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus ... was the Son of God

Let us point out that:

Irenaeus read the Greek Bible before 200 AD.

While we could look for discussion of the Irenaeus citations from the scholars, let us next go to the Cyprian references, not many years later. In contrast:

Cyprian read the Latin Bible of 225 AD.

And both men were highly significant church figures, Cyprian especially being involved in church councils and writings. Now it has been strongly contended by analysis (Kittel) that Cyprian also had some Greek reading skills. This is rather a peripheral issue, with the Irenaeus Greek Bible and the Cyprian Latin Bible being from the same period - whether one or both was bilingual will not effect our study very significantly. The two references are very complementary (in early church references this type of multiple complementary quoting enhances the status of both quotes). If we only had one, the bilingual aspect would be more important.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

There is an additional super-significant evidence from this time period, new to FRDB in terms of the actual reference not having been posted.

Cyprian

The Ante-Nicene fathers: Translations of the writings of the Fathers Down to 325 A.D.
(Roberts - Donaldson - Coxe Vol 5 1885)
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf0...ii.iv.xlv.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=HjE8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PT216

That he who believes can immediately obtain (i.e., pardon and peace).
In the Acts of the Apostles:
“Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized?
Then said Philip, If thou believest in all thine heart, thou mayest."

- Cyprian (200-258 AD) Treatises I:1:43

We note that this is specifically referenced as from the Acts of the Apostles, and the whole verse is given.

Acts 8:37
And Philip said,
If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
and he answered and said,
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

ειπεν δε ο φιλιππος ει πιστευεις εξ ολης της καρδιας εξεστιν αποκριθεις δε ειπεν πιστευω τον υιον του θεου ειναι τον ιησουν χριστον (Stephanus Greek NT)

eipen de o filippos ei pisteueis ex olhs ths kardias exestin apokriqeis de eipen pisteuw ton uion tou qeou einai ton ihsoun criston (John Hurt Parallel Greek New Testament)

With only a difference in phrasing.

While this is given in the Münster apparatus (a larger apparatus review, pro and con, accuracies and errors, is planned as part of this exposition) this early and direct scriptural citation was omitted completely in the writing of Bruce Metzger on Acts 8:37. (Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition, NY: United Bible Societies, 1994, page 315)

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

And next .. there is an additional reference from the same 3rd century period, one you may have a hard time finding in the critical apparatus or the writings of the scholars about Acts 8:37. Pontius wrote the life of Cyprian.

PONTIUS THE DEACON - (Pontius Diaconis)

The Life and Passion of St Cyprian - Pontius the Deacon (c 270 AD)

The speeches in Acts: their content, context, and concerns By Marion L. Soards
http://books.google.com/books?id=4jxb4F8dOdUC&pg=PA205

The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix
By Roberts, Donaldson, Coxe Vol 5
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.iii.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=aDc...J&pg=RA1-PA268

For although in the Acts of the Apostles the eunuch is described as at once baptized by Philip, because he believed with his whole heart, this is not a fair parallel (to the argument for baptizing novices). For he was a Jew, and as he came from the temple of the Lord he was reading the prophet Isaiah, and he hoped in Christ, although as yet he did not believe that He had come; while the other, coming from the ignorant heathens, began with a faith as mature as that with which few perhaps have finished their course. (ANF 5:268 3)

Interestingly, Erasmus, very well-versed on Cyprian, had specific correspondence about whether his "Life of Cyprian" was the complete work by Pontius the Deacon. - The Correspondence of Erasmus: Letters 1252 to 1355, 1522 to 1523 (p. 26). The superb Reformation Bible analysts looked closely at the early church writers.

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We will take a little break now, maybe a few hours or a two days, before continuing with some additional early references (Ante-Nicene). Any questions or comments on the above, please share away, however please try to keep the focus on the actual early church writer references and the textual apparatus about these references. For other issues, please set up a separate thread.

Personally I believe you can learn a lot about textual evidences and theories by looking at one verse very closely, and I hope you find the study interesting. Hmmm .. I have some material I may squeeze in first.

Thanks.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Westcott acknowledged that the "confession" was "known to Irenaeus and Cyprian". This was likely the source for the Bruce Metzger phrasing on these men. From the early writer sources we have given so far, none of these commentators mentions Pontius and Metzger lops off Cyprian.

The historic faith: short lectures on the Apostles' creed
By Brooke Foss Westcott
http://books.google.com/books?id=K_o2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA185

The confession which is found in the common texts in Acts viii. 37 is an early addition known to Irenaeus and Cyprian

Clearly Irenaeus and Cyprian (and Pontius) did not know this verse as an addition, as the language can imply. Compared to Bruce Metzger.

the tradition of the Ethiopian's confession of faith in Christ was current as early as the latter part of the second century, for Irenaeus quotes part of it (Against Heresies, III.xii.8).
(A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Bruce Metzger, 360)

Philip Schaff had two separate commentaries. The first one skips the early writers and jumps to Erasmus, the second references Irenaeus and Cyprian, although not with the verse directly in their Bibles.

A companion to the Greek Testament and the English version By Philip Schaff
http://books.google.com/books?id=zJ4HAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA191

The baptismal confession of the eunuch, Acts viii. 37, came in from very ancient ecclesiastical use. It supplies Philip's answer to the eunuch's question, "What doth hinder me to be baptized?" It appears in Western sources (Greek, Latin, and Arm.) and in some good cursives, but is absent from the best Greek MSS. and the Vulgate, though it soon found its way from the Old Latin into the later text of the Vulgate. Erasmus transferred it from the margin of one of his Greek MSS., as "having been omitted by the carelessness of scribes." (snip Revision)

The Creeds of Christendom V2: Greek and Latin Creeds By Philip Schaff
http://books.google.com/books?id=LenLqxcWrlEC&pg=PA6
http://books.google.com/books?id=YH3...age&q=&f=false

Bibliotheca symbolica ecclesiæ universalis, Volume 2 By Philip Schaff
http://books.google.com/books?id=59E...age&q=&f=false

The Confession of the Eunuch
Note.*This confession of the Ethiopian Eunuch before his baptism by Philip the Deacon, together with the preceding words of Philip,' If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest' [be baptized], according to the received text (with sundry variations), is not contained in the best Uncial MSS., and is given up by critical editors (Griesbach, Lachmann, Tischendorf, Tregelles, Alford, Westcott and Hort), as an interpolation made to suit the baptismal service of the Church; but it is found even in Irenaeus and Cyprian, and tends to prove the apostolical origin of a baptismal confession of faith in Christ as the Son of God.

The purpose here is not the textual discussion, mostly to show how these writers work with the early writer evidences and their language such as a "apostolical origin" and a "baptismal confession" with "very ancient ecclesiastical use". Note that none of the three speak clearly about the verse actually being in the Bibles of Irenaeus, Cyprian or Pontius.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

jakejonesiv

Irenaeus didn't have "believest with all thine heart" so I drew a red line through it in my KJB.

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Thank you for your thoughts, Jake. I have self-suspended posting for now, so the thread stands simply in its current state. Others may post, of course, however I have no expectations of continuing with the other ECW or apparatus, or responding.

Shalom,
Steven

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Above we gave how Westcott, Schaff and Metzger looked at the early writer evidences. Scrivener, and Schaaf editing round out some major figures historical understanding.

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Scrivener (Frederick Henry Ambrose Scrivener)

Irenaeus, who wrote in Gaul in the second century, recognised it without hesitation, as did Cyprian in the third century, Jerome and Augustine in the fourth..
Six lectures on the text of the New Testament and the ancient manuscripts

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cited by Irenaeus, both in Greek and Latin .. Bede, however, who used Cod. E, knew Latin copies in which the verse was wanting: yet it was known to Cyprian, Jerome, Augustine, Pacian, &c. among the Latins, to Œcumenius and Theophylact (twice quoted) among the Greeks.
Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament Vol 2 (p. 369)

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Schaff edited "A popular commentary on the New Testament"
Howsen and Spence were the writers.

The words here are found in Irenaeus, iii. 12 (second century); they are cited by this father without the least misgiving.... The Latin fathers, Cyprian, Jerome, and Augustine, were all acquainted with it. It was known and certainly well received in the Western or Latin Church, from the second century downwards, and afterwards made some way among the later Greek Codices and writers

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Scrivener is the only one who made a real effort to share the early church writers.

Shalom,
Steven

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

We have completed the early church writer clear evidences through the 3rd century. There is actually one more writer to consider, Tertullian, who is referenced in the Münster apparatus. However since his citation can also be seen as neutral rather than the apparatus pro-verse, we will return to Tertullian after many clear references through the early part of the post-Nicene period.

So next we will go to the age of our "earliest and most reliable manuscripts" (a phrase that is used specifically for Aleph and B, estimated as from the later 4th century).

Before doing that, the question arises .. are they any early church writer evidences through the 3rd century against the authenticity of Acts 8:37 ? None referenced by Metzger, Schaff, Scrivener or Westcott. None has ever been mentioned in the discussions. Nor has there been any indication that writers noted a manuscript split.

The main such evidence would be relating the story of Philip and the eunuch's baptism (especially going from verse 36 and then verse 38, as in a homily or a direct citation) without any mention or hint of the profession of faith. A second, weaker type of evidence from silence would be a discussion of believer's baptism with confession that passed over the verse yet included verses like the Mark 16:16 "he that believeth" and Matthew 28:19 "teach all nations .. baptizing them". Possibly we will find such negative evidences among writers in the post-Nicene period,

Irenaeus (2 citations)
Cyprian
Pontius the Deacon

All give solid evidence that Acts 8:37 was in their Bibles, Greek and Latin, no Ante-Nicene writer gives evidence against, and no early writer even gives a hint of doubt of authenticity or manuscript split.

Note that above this strength of citation was only in F H A Scrivener, e.g. "recognised it without hesitation". While others (who all knew or read Scrivener) changed the explanation to one much weaker. Why Pontius the Deacon was not mentioned is a puzzle, especially since this was clearly published in English translation in the later 1800s. In fact, Pontius the Deacon has been omitted from the apparatus and discussions today. These types of omissions act as a warning that often the apparatus and the textual criticism references to the writers are quite incomplete.

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One url correction above for Pontius the Deacon, the second of the urls was wrong, here corrected.

The Ante-Nicene Fathers: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, Novatian, Appendix
By Roberts, Donaldson, Coxe Vol 5
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.iii.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=aDc...J&pg=RA1-PA268
"For although in the Acts of the Apostles the eunuch is described ..."

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Also a note about Irenaeus. Scrivener mentions an Irenaeus reference preserved in Greek in a footnote:

(Harvey vol ii p. 62)
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/scrivener/n.../Page_369.html

It would be good to compare this source with our normal source, which is usually given as the Latin translation of Irenaeus.

Shalom,
Steven Avery