unknown4

..I read these three quotes below, and I would like input on which oracle/scriptures were referred to. The Christian I got them from linked them to Daniel 9:24-27. I'm not entirely sure, as Daniel 9:24-27 says this "anointed one" would be "cut off and have nothing" or however it's translated. That wouldn't really lead me to believe he'd then become the "governor of the habitable earth". Also, concerning Tacitus' quote, I don't see Daniel 9:24-27 saying the "Orient would triumph". One website mentioned Sybilline Oracles concerning Josephus' quote, but didn't give an exact quotation. Any help is appreciated. Also, the interesting thing is, although the Christian tries to link this prophecy to Jesus, if the quotes below are correct and they're referring to Daniel 9:24-27, then Jesus was around 30 years or so off the mark. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

"But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how, 'about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth.' The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination.. Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand. But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction." (Josephus, "Jewish War," 6.5.4)

"The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world. This mysterious prophecy really referred to Vespasian and Titus, but the common people, true to the selfish ambitions of mankind, thought that this mighty destiny was reserved for them, and not even their calamities opened their eyes to the truth." (Tacitus, "The Jews," 5.13)

"An ancient superstition was current in the East, that out of Judaea at this time would come the rulers of the world. This prediction, as the event later proved, referred to a Roman Emperor, but the rebellious Jews, who read it as referring to themselves, murdered their Governor, routed the Governor of Syria when he came down to restore order, and captured an Eagle. To crush this uprising the Romans needed a strong army under an energetic commander, who could be trusted not to abuse his considerable powers. The choice fell on Vespasian. He had given signal proof of energy and nothing, it seemed, need be feared from a man of such modest antecedents. Two legions, with eight cavalry squadrons and ten auxiliary cohorts, were therefore dispatched to join the forces already in Judaea; and Vespasian took his elder son, Titus, to serve on his staff." (Suetonius, "Vespasian: Afterwards Deified" 10.4)

Aspirin99

I suppose it largely depends on what you believe about Daniel. Most non-fundamentalist believe that Daniel was actually written c.168 BCE to invigorate the Jews to revolt against Antiochus IV. If true, you need to interpret the 70 weeks as applying to some time before Antiochus IV.

Josephus, on the other hand, was only interested in down playing any jewish revolt possibilities. That period for 6.5.4. would have been long after the life of Jesus, as you said (around 67-69). Obviously, if Suetonius is speaking of Vespasian, the same would apply.

Frankly, I'm not sure I fully understand what your question is, so that may or may not be helpful.

unknown4

Thanks for the response. I guess my main question is: What oracle/scriptures were these three authors referring to? I suppose they could be referring to Daniel 9:24-27, but that itself doesn't seem to explain all the references, because I fail to see where those verses say the "Orient would prevail".