GakuseiDon

This is such an important point when looking at Paul, and easy to lose sight of if trying to fit Paul into the tradition of the Gospels, either positively or negatively.

It is the crucified and Risen Jesus who was declared Son of God and becomes "Lord", sits at the right-hand side of God, and who, as the intermediary to mankind, has all knees bowed to, etc. In the OT, this is done to the Lord (YHWH), but in the NT, it is done to God via the Lord (Kurios) Jesus.

EarlDoherty

Because it wasn't there.

Earl Doherty

sotto voce

This phrase does not indicate separate location and therefore plurality. 'The right hand of God' signifies the active intervention of God, Sonship, culminating in atonement. Without atonement, there could be no useful knowledge of God, no meaningful relationship between God and man. Fatherhood of deity is contingent on Sonship of deity, not vice versa.

In the OT, this is done to YHWH, who is Lord of only Israel, by covenant, lordship being due in return for perfect law and guidance, and prosperity. However, this relationship was predicated on future atonement, as promised to Abraham, and was intended as preparation for it.

In the NT, it is done to YHWH who was made manifest as Jesus, whose sacrificial atonement made YHWH lord (kurios) of all humanity; actual lord and father of some, rightful lord and victor over others. Judgment of all is also rightful as a result of that sacrifice.

Atonement is key.

sotto voce

That doesn't explain why it had to be there.

aa5874

Actually, it is claimed in Galatians 4.4 that God SENT his Son which implies that Jesus was God BEFORE he was Sent in the fulness of Galatians 4:4 KJV

Galatians 4.4 That is PRECISELY how how one writes about the Son of God--God SENT his Son.

There is no other way to write God Sent his Son.

And again, in Galatians 2.2, it is claimed Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

There is NO other way to write about Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Galatians 2:20 KJV In the other Epistles, Jesus Christ is IDENTIFIED as the Son of God.

Romans 8:3 KJV1 Corinthians 1:9 KJV2 Corinthians 1:19 KJV The Pauline Jesus was considered God's Son BEFORE he was SENT to be crucified.

The Son of God the Lord Jesus Christ was born AFTER the Spirit.

Galatians 4:29 KJV

Solo

It may even be telepathy !

Jiri

stephan huller

I just stumbled upon this reference to the same material in Clement Stromata Book One:

and in the case of the passions of the soul, which we master by virtue, reason is the ordering power, by affixing the seal of continence and self-restraint, along with holiness, and sound knowledge with truth, making the result of the whole to terminate in piety towards God. For it is wisdom which regulates in the case of those who so practise virtue; and divine things are ordered by wisdom, and human affairs by politics -- all things by the kingly faculty. He is a king, then, who governs according to the laws, and possesses the skill to sway willing subjects. Such is the Lord, who receives all who believe on Him and by Him. For the Father has delivered and subjected all to Christ our King," that at the name of Jesus every knee may bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

'ἐν δὲ τοῖς τῆς ψυχῆς πάθεσιν, ὧν ἐπικρατοῦμεν τῇ ἀρετῇ, λογισμός ἐστι τὸ τακτικόν, ἐπισφραγιζόμενος ἐγκράτειαν καὶ σωφροσύνην μεθ' ὁσιότητος καὶ γνῶσιν ἀγαθὴν μετ' ἀληθείας, τὸ τέλος εἰς εὐσέβειαν ἀναφέρων θεοῦ. οὕτω γὰρ τῇ ἀρετῇ χρωμένη φρόνησις ἡ τάττουσά ἐστι, τὰ μὲν θεῖα ἡ σοφία, τὰ ἀνθρώπεια δὲ ἡ πολιτική, σύμπαντα δὲ ἡ βασιλική. βασιλεὺς τοίνυν ἐστὶν ὁ ἄρχων κατὰ νόμους ὁ τὴν τοῦ ἄρχειν ἑκόντων ἐπιστήμην ἔχων, οἷός ἐστιν ὁ κύριος τοὺς εἰς αὐτὸν καὶ δι' αὐτοῦ πιστεύοντας προσιέμενος. πάντα γὰρ παρέδωκεν ὁ θεὸς καὶ πάντα ὑπέταξεν Χριστῷ τῷ βασιλεῖ ἡμῶν, ἵνα ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ πᾶν γόνυ κάμψῃ ἐπουρανίων καὶ ἐπιγείων καὶ καταχθονίων, καὶ πᾶσα γλῶσσα ἐξομολογήσηται ὅτι κύριος Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ πατρός

GakuseiDon

That's interesting, because Clement knows of the Gospels and that Mary is Jesus' mother. So I wonder what he made of that passage. Are there any suggestions in his writings that he thought that the name "Jesus" was given only after death, which presumably went against his understanding of the Gospels?

aa5874

Yes, that is really interesting because Clement knows of gMatthew and gLuke where it states that Jesus was the product of an Overshadowing Holy Ghost. See "The Stromata" 1.

stephan huller

To be honest I don't know if Clement is saying the name was given after. Just that Jesus was a king. which is still odd because as a man he wasn't.