sugarhitman

shields, horses, horsemen= weapons, army Cush=Ethiopia Gomer=northern lands,Europeans. Anything else? :wave:

WVIncagold

it isn't prophecy if its written after the event that is called historical observation. But before it can be taken as accurate it has to be supported by other historical observations. These have not come forth to support something written after the event.

Darklighter

I agree that the Gog of Magog prophecy was obviously written for a future fulfillment, however you have no basis to connect various prophecies simply because they use similar imagery. Can't you see the problem with cherry-picking what you want the prophecies to mean? The Bible is a big book. I could select bits of prophecy to make it look like it can predict anything and everything. Just watch the retarded Televangili$t$ on TBN for 10 minutes. Thats EXACTLY what they do. How often are they correct? Never.

:banghead: I've spent my life studying prophecy and even when I believed I saw no reason to make the leaps that you're making. The prophecies you cite don't allow for the connections you've made. But why would the prophets not make clear, easily verifiable claims? Again, what you're describing could mean anything! Go talk to other believers who study prophecy and see how many agree with your take. Why would god allow "believers" to have 1,000,000,000 different interpretations of the same prophecy? Why does the Bible encourage disagreement instead of agreement? Anyone who wants to believe should be able to easily grasp the meaning of the prophecies. All this makes sense if there is no god, however. As spin always says: Why does god mimic exactly the way things would be if there were no god?

Thats not exactly what I intended to accuse you of. I don't think you're making things up, per se. I know you're sincere but you're reading into things that arn't there. You're adding justifications, caveats, and lines of reasoning that arn't supported by the WORDS of the scriptures. The prophets DO contradict each other and sometimes they contradict themselves, as in Ezekiels case.

When I was a believer, I too viewed the Bible as one book that must be studied as a SINGLE work, and I was doing the similar mental contortions that you are doing in order to make sense of it. And I realized that an omnipotent, all-loving god would not have allowed for SO MUCH ambiguity on things that are vital to belief. Otherwise he discriminates against people who have a skeptical disposition, like me. he would not ask people to believe things that they KNOW CANNOT BE TRUE, like the flood, creation myth, tower of babel, the exodus, and the list goes on. He would not have provided a book that can SO EASILY be doubted by a study of history and science. Therefore the God of the Bible cannot exist. I grow more sure of that statement every day, not because of faith, but because that is where the evidence and logic leads me.

arnoldo

Or a conspiracy by the Jews. . .

Jack the Bodiless

Well, in a sense, it was.

According to Biblical scholars, several Biblical books are the product of multiple authors, and appear to have been added to or revised (this is definitely true of Jeremiah, where different editions exist). Much of this editing is thought to have happened after the Babylonian Exile, where the priests got together and decided on a (more or less) coherent "vision" for their newly-restored nation.

Also, the Jews have a custom of "midrash", where new books are specifically designed to expand on themes and characters in earlier ones.

WVIncagold

I don't know did he? it is up to you to prove your point.Considering it never happened it is moot on whether it was written or not. If your wrong about a non event it pretty much means your neutral. By the way sugarhitman's is saying it is coming soon in the CE not in the past. we are talking about within his life time according to his ominous warning. I still haven't heard why I living in WV should care? so Egypt gets destroyed. So? Did they care when New Orleans was destroyed? This proves what? Unless Egypt is destroyed today by guys riding chariots, carrying bows and arrows and shields, it pretty much doesn't worry me. Keep in mind this post is sugars idea that "it is coming" today. Not back in Nebbys time but he alludes it is happening soon.

makerowner

Why is it that you guys accept all sorts of metaphorical/allegorical interpretations of stuff like this, but you believe that Genesis is literally true? How do you know which parts are metaphors, and which parts are literal?

WVIncagold

Shields, horses, horsemen= Shields, Horses, Horsemen
Cush= Cush
Gomer=Gomer
Who's right the one that takes the word of god as the word of god without private inflection(me) or places his own thoughts into gods words (you)?
Is there a legend somewhere that is available for us that gives us a "map" of when the bible is to be taken literally and when it isn't? Because it is hard to argue with the one true word when it never says what it means and never means what it says, unless of course your a non believer than it is always on the other side. Maybe you could right a Fundamentalism for idiots guide so we can follow when the bible is literal and a horse is a horse and when its a weapon or when its a unicorn? Sure would help understand where your coming from. From President Clinton what is the meaning of the word "is"?:wave:

martini

your attempt to trivialize these words is rather disingenuous, to be kind. at no point do ANY of the words used in these verses indicate ANY other meaning but what is plainly stated. neither the Hebrew in the original nor the context of the passages give way to your painfully stressed "interpretation" and i do so use that term as loosely as you have performed it. perhaps you need a review? here is a list of items clearly referring to contemporary places and things:

your horses
your horsemen fully armed
a great horde with large and small shields
brandishing their swords
Persia
Cush
Put
with shields and helmets,
Gomer with all its troops
Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops
rich in livestock and goods
to carry off silver and gold
Sheba
Dedan
the merchants of Tarshish and all her villages
your bow from your left hand
your arrows drop from your right hand

exactly how do you justify your broad and completely misinformed understanding of these things mentioned in Ezekiel as being anything BUT exceptionally DATED references to warfare and countries of his time?

PLEASE break your argument down as much as you possibly can because the lines you are drawing would be unconvincing to even a naive first-year seminary student.

in addition, if these prophetic utterances mean what you claim they mean, how do you explain verse 9 of chapter 39?

" 'Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up—the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. 10 They will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut it from the forests, because they will use the weapons for fuel.

FUEL, Mr Hitman? surely you do not think Israel will use guns and tanks as fuel INSTEAD of gathering "WOOD from the fields" or "cut...from the forests"! :wave:

juergen

You can dismiss claims congruent with observed reality by responding with extreme positions held by others that might or might not correspond to reality, but that will never make the problem go away.